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Thread: Conquest need balance

  1. #1
    Soulwalker MelodyPond's Avatar
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    Default Conquest need balance

    Over the past month, conquest has become a joke mainly for a combination of 3 reasons
    1. Unbalanced pre-mades (although not a problem by themselves)
    2. It's the only place to get Hearts
    3. Hearts are not account bound (like RIC is).

    A month ago, conquests were still fun but now they are nothing more than a instance to be manipulated by largely by pre-mades to get an elusive Heart.

    People join - and if they don't get the same team as the pre-made, they leave as they know they wont get a Heart. The rewards for the weekly win and 2000 kills are insufficient to get people to stay for their quests (particularly the 2000 kills). This is particularly obvious in the "slower" times when less people are logged in.

    Maybe restricting pre-mades to 10 people and making Hearts available by other means (as per RIC) would help bring fun back to Conquests.

  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Kelebra's Avatar
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    CQ balance is never going to happen, Rift has never developed a standard vision of balance or if they have they have never shared it with the community that I am aware of. What I mean specifically with regards to that statement is class balance around a set group size. For example WoW's PvP is balanced specifically around 3v3. They view that as the most competitive form of PvP from their game and focus class balance around it. Would balancing Rift's PvP around 3v3 help CQ? The answer would be time and time again NO. CQ is large scale PvP and 3V3 balance would never apply. My point here though isn't that, but more specifically that Rift doesn't have a balance metric period.

    Even if they balanced the game around say a standard WF of 10V10 or 15V15 you couldn't achieve balance in CQ as team sizes are rarely equal, though you would probably achieve slightly better balance than you currently have.

    With regards to premades, it has been stated by Rifts development team that they like premades and encourage them to join. Don't foresee this ever changing nor should you.

    What does all of this mean....nothing really, its more or less food for thought. I would prefer Rift fixes gear issues before they even consider trying to come up with a balance solution for CQ.
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  3. #3
    Ascendant Rheven's Avatar
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    Personally, I just can't get into it. I liked CQ Power and kept it up on my mage and one rogue. And, I needed the marks for my BIS essences. But those are both gone now (don't you love the habit Trion has of completely tossing your PvP effort on the dung pile) and I joined a few 3.0 conquests which all were rapid fire (over in about 5 minutes) and seemed mostly a chest mining for the cool kidz. Why bother? My suggestion: KILL IT! Course we all know the Powers love a PreMade nearly as much as they do Raiders so that's doubtful. That given, don't Q and let it die a just death.
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  4. #4
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    the concept of balance has been completely thrown out the window in every area of pvp, not just conquest.

    I'm not even just talking about balancing classes/souls/roles, but teams, gear, every aspect of pvp.
    just look at the warfront match making: we have freshly levelled players/under geared/low ELO players in the same matches as the veterans/BiS geared/high ELO players.

    why suddenly start trying to balance CQ when everything else is so out of whack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    They need to just admit that Conquest has been a failure. The game engine can't handle it, it is universally reviled, and the only way they can get people to participate is by gating 90% of BIS gear behind it. And even then, most people just hop in for timer rather than actually contributing.

    I don't know why they are so stubborn about it. Conquest sucks in every way, full stop.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    The Status Quo, will fight you tooth and nails to keep it where it is broken, as it's good for them, for easy win and loot.

    I talk about this long be for, didn't help as they opened cq for 3.0, we can take out premade, we can make the rewards bigger, we can force people to stay even way, tons of people find it a waste of time to spend hours and hours with little or no reward just to get farmed or have under level team as some can put a group together in cq but don't match the gear or the class make up.

    If they made the game shorter, like when the timer hits then mass amount people show up, I think if that catch that it may turn around. But whos knows, but right now cq looking worst each week.

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    They need to just admit that Conquest has been a failure. The game engine can't handle it, it is universally reviled, and the only way they can get people to participate is by gating 90% of BIS gear behind it. And even then, most people just hop in for timer rather than actually contributing.

    I don't know why they are so stubborn about it. Conquest sucks in every way, full stop.
    It's far from universally reviled, there is a decent sized population that loves CQ. I don't know what is wrong with them, but hey are there.

  8. #8
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Default Make your QoL better

    it isn't going away anytime soon. There are ways to make much more enjoyable for your time:

    1. Get in a premade
    2. Form a full premade (you don't have to make calls in game, just form a solid raid before hand)
    3. Form you and 9 others in a premade. The trick - make all 10 support builds. Bring 3 tanks, 5 heals, and the other two support. Once in game, add 10 dps to your raid.
    4 Build on number 3: Form 20 man pre-made but with two groups of 10. Split once in CQ and add 10 DPS to EACH group. (This is Awesome) Assistants' AMP build as he used to call it.

    Anyone can do any of the things above. Doing any one of them would make CQ life a lot better for you. Number three can be especially effective during low pop times when you have issues getting a full raid before CQ.
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  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    I've tried to get into CQ several times, I just can't.

    Most of the times I join I'm on a team that has 10% control, or 80 points vs 1400 points, you quit in 10s, its no fun being slaughered over and over.

    When i join and get the rarely balanced match the problems only get worse. In territory control you can spend hours fighting, and the balance goes back and forth over and over, on a weeknight I have to log off and I get absolutely nothing but a feeling of hatred for the game. In the points versions that team rushes are so laggy and such slideshows its just unplayable.

    IMO, the entire concept needs a rethink. I hate losing out if I can't stay up all night to "win" , and the win/lose on this is even less dependant on the individual than a warfront. When you can't feel like you contribute to the success of a mission the game doesn't feel fun, and thats Conquest.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker Pythonia's Avatar
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    Default Nerf the pre-mades

    Only thing that is going to encourage people to play CQ is to do away with the pre-mades. Everyone knows it's true no matter what they say! If the dev's are still standing behind the pre-mades then they are way out of touch with the over-all player base!

  11. #11
    Champion Azuli's Avatar
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    Over the past month? I think you meant since RoD/HK started recruiting.

    The big change since 3.0 is there are a lot of people who say (whether a warfront or CQ) "there is a premade on the other side, I am not even going to try".

    I've seen quite a few leaderless PUG teams win in both warfront and CQ. The key is not to immediately decide that premades are better at anything. The only thing they have going for them is coordination.

    I've watched PUG raids stomp premades into the ground. What most people do when confronted with a premade is run away or back up. If everyone stands their ground and pushes, both sides have an equal chance.

    As others have suggested, why not grab some friends and queue together?
    ~Belisama

  12. #12
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuli View Post
    Over the past month? I think you meant since RoD/HK started recruiting.

    The big change since 3.0 is there are a lot of people who say (whether a warfront or CQ) "there is a premade on the other side, I am not even going to try".

    I've seen quite a few leaderless PUG teams win in both warfront and CQ. The key is not to immediately decide that premades are better at anything. The only thing they have going for them is coordination.

    I've watched PUG raids stomp premades into the ground. What most people do when confronted with a premade is run away or back up. If everyone stands their ground and pushes, both sides have an equal chance.

    As others have suggested, why not grab some friends and queue together?
    I would add one more thing: They have great raid composition. That is really the key. Try pugging and getting folks in your raid to put together 5 heals, a couple of tanks, and some support roles - its almost impossible.

    They roll in with specs like Pyro, Inq or Sin -- have maybe two heals in the raid -- and then blame premades when they get rolled.

    Conversely, when you put together some semblance of composition, you magically become very competitive during fights.
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  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    it isn't going away anytime soon. There are ways to make much more enjoyable for your time:

    1. Get in a premade
    2. Form a full premade (you don't have to make calls in game, just form a solid raid before hand)
    3. Form you and 9 others in a premade. The trick - make all 10 support builds. Bring 3 tanks, 5 heals, and the other two support. Once in game, add 10 dps to your raid.
    4 Build on number 3: Form 20 man pre-made but with two groups of 10. Split once in CQ and add 10 DPS to EACH group. (This is Awesome) Assistants' AMP build as he used to call it.

    Anyone can do any of the things above. Doing any one of them would make CQ life a lot better for you. Number three can be especially effective during low pop times when you have issues getting a full raid before CQ.
    If this one the problem we would not have a short of premade going around to keep things leveled, or people grouping with each other to make a premade, I hear this about every day, have it worked yet?, seem been geting worst.

  14. #14
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaber View Post
    If this one the problem we would not have a short of premade going around to keep things leveled, or people grouping with each other to make a premade, I hear this about every day, have it worked yet?, seem been geting worst.
    It works for me. That doesn't mean its the best way or that it will work for you. However, do ONE of the four things I listed in every match you play this week. I think you will find it a lot more enjoyable. Try it and see.
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  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    It works for me. That doesn't mean its the best way or that it will work for you. However, do ONE of the four things I listed in every match you play this week. I think you will find it a lot more enjoyable. Try it and see.
    Right does work for some, but that some are limit, and there are people out there that will not join some other group due there not part there guild or there well knowed to win.

    Yes does help there more premade around if people got on it, but right now very few people doing it, But where stand now people not working so well.

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