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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Updates to Marauder Supply Cache Gear

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    Rift Team Archonix's Avatar
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    Default Updates to Marauder Supply Cache Gear

    Over the next few weeks we're going to be reviewing progression as a whole, across all aspects of RIFT.

    First up are the drops from Marauder Supply Caches. The current rewards need a bit of love to keep in line with other areas of the game, so starting with this weeks patch expect to see a significant bump in power from the base rewards, as well as those from each upgrade tier.

    Here's a few examples post revamp (edited: the changes for Ephemeral and Dreambreaker upgrades will be retroactive. Existing base Marauder gear from before the update will not received the boost):

    Updates to Marauder Supply Cache Gear-marauder-upgrades.jpg

    Both rate of acquisition as well as upgrade costs are still up for review. While the first step was increasing the chance for equipment to drop, we're still exploring additional avenues to get the gear into your hands.

    Next up we'll be reviewing what an additional upgrade tier looks like for Dreambreaker gear. What does it cost? Does it require a Heart of the Frozen? Should it be gated behind Prestige Rank and/or something else?

    As this is something that could considerably reduce the power gap between what's currently available in PVP and Raids, or even give it a run for it's money, we'd love to hear your thoughts.
    Last edited by Archonix; 01-22-2015 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Don't forget to adjust the Ethereal Touch proc. As it stands, ET doesn't come close to comparing to the other damage procs in NT.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Zetsuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archonix View Post
    Over the next few weeks we're going to be reviewing progression as a whole, across all aspects of RIFT.

    First up are the drops from Marauder Supply Caches. The current rewards need a bit of love to keep in line with other areas of the game, so starting with this weeks patch expect to see a significant bump in power from the base rewards, as well as those from each upgrade tier.

    Here's a few examples post revamp (the changes will be retroactive):


    Both rate of acquisition as well as upgrade costs are still up for review. While the first step was increasing the chance for equipment to drop, we're still exploring additional avenues to get the gear into your hands.

    Next up we'll be reviewing what an additional upgrade tier looks like for Dreambreaker gear. What does it cost? Does it require a Heart of the Frozen? Should it be gated behind Prestige Rank and/or something else?

    As this is something that could considerably reduce the power gap between what's currently available in PVP and Raids, or even give it a run for it's money, we'd love to hear your thoughts.
    This is a good step into giving pvp community love it deserve , i have suggestion regarding the gating you might find useful :

    You have many options to make requirement for gear such as :

    -Rank 100 for top tier upgrade
    -Achievement gate (like the one in nightmare rifts essences) like :
    *kill x number of players in 1 week
    *Win x number of WFs in 1 week
    *or get x number killing blow streak in 1 WF
    *or maybe finish certain WF with full group in under than x time
    *Achieve x number damage in 1 WF
    *Achieve x number of healing in 1 WF
    *achieve x number of Savoir in 1 WF


    This will greatly encourage people to participate on WFs and more importantly will encourage them to teamwork better and cooperate .

    in the end and with all honesty .. PvPers are looking for gear that specially for hardcore pvpers in the same way PvErs loves to have shiny Relic gear , something that we acquire by completing hard tasks in pvp ... at the moment PvPers can get dungeon gear and that's it .. Raid gear are far away .

    As i said its a good step in the right way keep going plz
    I keel Em Too Fast !

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    Two issues still remain:

    - No secondary stat gear. It needs to go away.
    - We need to be able to choose between stats (AP/SP, Crit, CP) just like raid mark gear. Use favor for that.

    Gating the last upgrade path is a good idea.
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  5. #5
    Sword of Telara MickNico's Avatar
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    This is good news Trion. PvP was way behind.

    I can't say I'm happy to still see gear without secondary stats. Why the extra endurance? This was done in chocolate but at least we had primary and secondary stats (that were both lower than PvE which would make better sense ) not gear without secondary stats. Why make people make two sets again?. I'm flat out trying to get my PvE gear upgraded.

    Just with gear upgrades I would like to make a few suggestions.

    Prestige should have tier's just like relic, epic does. e.g. If your level 80 you can make your first upgrade, maximum level you can upgrade the item to maximum.

    Favor needs to stay as part of any upgrade.

    As I am now I have upgraded all but one item with Abyssal Crusader Accelerator but need a lot of items to upgrade with Void Source Accelerators for my PvE set which is going to start again if I make a second PvP set. Is there any way of selling Abyssal for Void accelerators e.g. 1 Abyssal accelerator for 2,3,4 Void accelerator? Or 2,3,4 Void accelerators for one Abyssal accelerator in shop. Would make item dev job a lot easier that putting two upgrade options on each item.
    I guess at the end of the day you have to decide if this Marauder gear is just for PvP or for both PvE and PvP. If it's just for PvP some things to items like receive 10% more heals in PvP only or stuns/CC last 1 second only.

    How hard would it be to have a item that changes from PvE to PvP? Let's say your in world map or doing raids your gear has it's normal stats but once you go into PvP it changes to a PvP gear without your secondary stats and more endurance? Just an idea.
    Mickdayblind NA Defiant

  6. #6
    Shield of Telara Wilkoss's Avatar
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    I think it would be best to keep it simple.

    The next stage reaches +150 Hit purple level. It's gated behind Rank 90 and costs 10 Void Stone Accelerators plus 1 Advanced Favour Infused Accelerator. An advanced favour accelerator costs 200k favour. Cap favour gain at something like 100k per week.

    Also introduce a relic quality upgrade which requires the same mats as the previous upgrade, plus a Heart of the Frozen. Have this gated behind Rank 100.

    The above examples would be for armour/accessories. Given the rarity of raid level weapons I'd suggest a 1Her would cost double, and a 2Her quadruple (40 VS Accels and 4 Advanced FIAs).

    This might sound harsh but in reality you are looking at most R90 PvPers being able to obtain a 1Her in the first week, or a 2Her in 5 weeks (assume 300k favour to start, spend 200k on day 1 then gain 100k cap = 2 Advanced FIAs), another 4 weeks would see enough for a 2nd 1Her or a 2Her. getting a relic 2Her would take a total of 13 weeks (initial 5 weeks for purple, then 8 weeks for relic upgrade).


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    Plane Walker
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    Thank you. As you look at this please look at making favor and prestige useful again.

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Veldan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archonix View Post
    Next up we'll be reviewing what an additional upgrade tier looks like for Dreambreaker gear. What does it cost? Does it require a Heart of the Frozen? Should it be gated behind Prestige Rank and/or something else?
    No Heart of the Frozen please. Right now, the CQ chest item is only a little extra for raiders, if you put it up as a requirement for a higher tier of Dreambreaker gear, it would become "mandatory" for PvPers. While I feel that loot RNG is generally fine, the Heart of the Frozen from CQ is much more frustrating because you need to

    1) win the CQ
    2) manage to loot the chest
    3) be lucky

    where with typical RNG loot in games you only need step 3. And of course there is also step 0) which is acquiring an actual piece of gear to be upgraded, from a warfront win box. So I'd say Heart of the Frozen would make the dreambreaker gear path too long and too dependent on luck.

    I'd be all for some achievement based requirement. Prestige might not be ideal, because either the requirement is rank 90 and all Storm Legion PvPers already have it, making the requirement meaningless, or the requirement is rank 100 and new players will take an eternity to catch up. It's a lose/lose situation imo.

    But to give an idea: perhaps some new PvP meta achievement could be made that includes some achievements from each warfront, but not the super grindy ones like winning 100 times. This meta achiev could then be the requirement for the ability to upgrade Dreambreaker gear. That way, there is a sense of accomplishment to it, that is not based on grind or loot RNG.
    Last edited by Veldan; 01-20-2015 at 03:49 AM. Reason: Clarity

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Kartia's Avatar
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    I wish less RNG please.
    Maybe you could put in boxes "base" gear and we could choose on upgrade what we want.
    Healer/tank/dps weapon, trinket, greater, CP/AP/SP/END heavy and so on.

    And please stop put trash gear in boxes. What a waste.
    I would like to see runes/consumables in the boxes as well, like we had at the end of SL. But additional to gear not instead of

    Yes I know upgrade cost is decreased, but I still feel 12 accelerators is a bit high for second upgrade. Decrease void stone cost and increase favour cost for an upgrade.

    Can we have the same proc amount when our pvp weapons/trinkets upgraded than the expert weapons/trinkets.

    I really appreciate this effort.

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    Thanks Archonix, this looks good.

    I'm not so sure about gating behind prestige ranks, dungeon drops aren't gated behind anything other than having 800 hit (+stats) to get in and abyssal marks for upgrades.
    WF drops aren't gated behind anything, but upgrades are also gated behind abyssal marks.

    Adding a further level of gating would be hell for new players. I've taken part in loads of warfronts, I started my main in SL and yet he's not P80 yet.
    Sure, I know if you're serious you can rank up far quicker, especially farming in CQ, but for most casual pvpers P100 is years away.

    Gating for raid gear is obviously different, you need 1000 hit, as well as decent gear, so,
    perhaps an option to queue for a 1000 hit random, where the box could award the upgrade items for upgrading your expert level marauder box item into an epic item, or shards of upgrade item to combine depending on how quick you want players to gain equipment.

    Might make for longer queues, but tbh currently WF random queue time is measured in seconds. On the plus side it would split players by gear, and give incentive to better geared players to take part against equals.
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  11. #11
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veldan View Post
    No Heart of the Frozen please. Right now, the CQ chest item is only a little extra for raiders, if you put it up as a requirement for a higher tier of Dreambreaker gear, it would become "mandatory" for PvPers. While I feel that loot RNG is generally fine, the Heart of the Frozen from CQ is much more frustrating because you need to

    1) win the CQ
    2) manage to loot the chest
    3) be lucky
    Disagree here. If we're going to make the playing field more level for PVP, definitely require HOTF if we're adding in another tier for Dreambreaker gear (only if the gear becomes relic quality, NOT epic +150 hit tier although the cost to upgrade SHOULD be hefty.) Level of frustration should be the same whether pve or pvp.

    And I don't even state this as a raider since I know that's going to be a reply here from some people. I would rather see PVE gear and PVP gear in the game still. Pre-3.0, I farmed and earned the best gear for PVP (and still did PVE), and would still rather do that now. But I can't, so whatever.
    Last edited by Riane; 01-20-2015 at 04:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched GenjuroK's Avatar
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    Less RNG if possible.. create an alternate route to obtain Hearts of the Frozen. Some people (like myself) already at 100+ CQ victories only gotten one or no heart so far while others with much less wins have 5+. (Let Conquest Chests and/or Marauder chests drop some kind of currency with which you can buy a Heart of the Frozen, it can be expensive but you have something to work for, CQ doesnt feel like a waste of time when you get at least a couple tokens which will get you a Heart eventually)

    Also make the Marauder gear attainable through an alternate way, like prestige rank + favour + some kind of tokens (expert marks?), it can be fairly expensive but it would reduce the RNG and frustration a little if you know after a couple weeks you will get at least one good item if you're really unlucky with chest drops.
    Last edited by GenjuroK; 01-20-2015 at 04:29 AM.
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    I would love to see PvP boxes being more similar to the lvl 60 boxes (Depleting Supply Crate), so that they can drop basic dreambreaker gear (blue) or consumables and maybe some fluff stuff.

    Imo the first two upgrades should include VS/ACM token + favor token, the third should use sth. bought with raid marks, because otherwise you could get raid quality gear too easy.

    PvP can still be done by AFKing so it shouldn't be faceroll to get the "good stuff".

  14. #14
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    Thanks a lot for this - it's great to see attention on the drops, and the initial stat boost is great!

    For what you've posted though, the shiv at least still seems to be behind NTE drops when fully upgraded, even if you swap end/dex? And the rings/capes: are they stronger than before?

    There are a number of things that I see as issues, though:
    1. Raid/PvP gear differences. Daglar stated a couple of weeks ago that WFs should be inferior for gearing whilst you can still fail your way to gear. Changing upgrades isn't going to fix that, whereas changing matchmaking potentially could (but would probably take a fair amount of effort on your part). Whilst this is true, can we at least...
      • PvPing should be able to award gear that has the same effectiveness at the same rate in PvP as PvE does. From a purely conceptual point of view, it makes no sense to get gear for PvPing a lot faster by doing something that isn't PvP.
      • Maximum gear tier. One question Daglar didn't answer is why T1 epics aren't downbolstered. Barring sparkles, T1s were all but unobtainable for pure PvPers, whilst the raid currency increase helped it's still a number of months of weeklies to get what some players have already.
    2. Upgrade costs. This isn't as much of a problem now the base tier is so much better and the upgrades add less, but unless the costs drop it's still going to mean that gear progression will tail off once you start to get the stage where you've filled every slot. Oh, and we have way too much favor. I'm sitting on a stack of accelerators that I lack the marks to use and half a stack of vials too, I might stop spending it before long. And the accelerators only salvage into level 50 runecrafting mats
    3. RNG. Every item comes from one box. I think I've recieved four staffs, orbs, and rings thus far, and have yet to see a single trinket, making me 1000 hit with the old 60 PvP trinkets. This is something that PvE players have some means around by queuing specific dungeons daily. If you must mix it up a bit then rewarding a token which buys you a weapon, armor, essence or accessory cache would lessen this, but without the daily limit it could be too good compared to PvE.
    4. "Useless" stat variations. I thought the whole point of gear unification was to produce some sort of gear that would let somebody use the same set effectively in both PvE and PvP. Why then does PvP provide three major stat distributions?
      • Gear without a secondary stat would only serve as a slot filler for somebody without a 65 item yet, in all other respects I cannot see the logic in having it.
      • High endurance gear. Why is this here? If it's better for PvP (not convinced about this at the moment) then its existence will mean seriously dedicated people can collect a PvE and PvP gear set once again, which surely goes against the purpose of unifying the gear to begin with.
      • Should the "normal" gear's CP really be as high as it is? I don't mind, but having BiS capes coming from PvP is maybe not preferable for raiders. That, or add something that allows you to obtain equivalent capes another way. In any case, adding incentives to get people in any form of PvP when they don't really have any interest in actively playing the content (only in the reward) is not at all preferable for a system in which random group formation is involved. The weekly quests are perhaps bigger culprits for this, but that's going a bit OT.

        Well, you could say the same about PvPers using the dungeon queue, but if you don't pull a reasonable weight there then your party makes sure you get the boot. That doesn't happen in PvP.
      • You can't get tank gear through PvP. In the world of gear unification this seems odd.
    5. Essences. NMR essences are far, far stronger than anything that can be obtained through PvP, even with the high CP on the dreambreaker ones.
    6. Manugo decrees! Not really gear related but for people without any of the CE versions it would be a lot fairer if they could be obtained through PvP too. I don't think "utterly abysmal" quite describes GSE's manugo rate, unless you've upped it already without me noticing.
    As an aside, I'm of the opinion that PvPing for gear needs to give gear progression in PvP equal or superior to that of PvE. I'd much, much rather go back to prestige, vengeance and valor than what we have now: though grindy, I don't want to run dungeons and it's the only way to compete due to the mark cost. The fact that you have to spend less enjoyable time being underpowered to get anything worth sinking marks into is a pretty big deterrent too, but the base gear upgrades ought to help.

    For raid upgrades, it's difficult as you once again bump into the problem that you can't reward skill. If you make it achievement locked, what would you use as the requirements that couldn't be somehow abused by groups queuing together to help one person get them? Without any kind of skill-rewarding system PvP gearing will forever be reduced to grind, RNG or something potentially abusable because that's the only way to do it with the current mechanics. That was why I wrote this thread, if anyone can stand more of my rambling: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...skill-pvp.html. No more shameless self promotion, I promise!

    Prestige could still work without locking out new players, if prestige gains < 90 were accelerated a lot and the PA xp dropped. SL PvE gear progression got thrown in the dump when 3.0 hit, so you could argue that it would only be fair that PvP was too. Or, you could just make raid tier upgrades require favor accelerators and a reusable item that you purchase once with favor accelerators and never again. Then, once you accumulate enough stacks of accelerators you essentially can start upgrading to the next tier, in much the same way that prestige tiers were achievement locked. It would discourage spending on recon vials, though...

  15. #15
    Official Rift Founding Fan Site Operator bctrainers's Avatar
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    First off, I am glad to seeing these PVP based gear stats getting boosted up and given attention... however...

    What about the items/gear that is missing its secondary stat? Will those items have their main stat severely boosted to accommodate for the secondary stat missing? The screenshot that you have provided isn't showing much promise to that.

    Secondary stat is 25% of what ever it may be.

    So lets use an item in the game, and take out that secondary stat.

    Empowered Dreambreaker Mace
    - 200 wisdom
    - 108 intelligence
    - 159 endurance
    - 304 crit power
    - 2017 SP
    - 125 hit.

    Wisdom is an easy 150 SP. The intelligence will net in 27 SP. We get 177 SP right there from the two stats. For a total of 2194 SP. Now, lets remove that 108 intelligence, and we instantly (as a cleric) lose out on 27 spell power.

    Apply this scenario to numerous gear slots missing its secondary stat, that's a fair bit of spell power being lost out on.

    Let alone, critical hit chance is 50% derived from wisdom and 50% derived from intelligence. As seen above, 50% of 108 intel is 54 and 50% of 200 wisdom is 100. Take away the int, and you're left with just 100 points added to your critical hit chance.

    These missing stats since the introduction of these items in storm legion need to go. Add the stat, or toss the items missing the secondary stats out the window.
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