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Thread: 3 constructive suggestions to improve the issue with CQ.

  1. #1
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    Default 3 constructive suggestions to improve the issue with CQ.

    In non peak hours there's an issue with premades having more players on their side compared to other factions, this allow them to cap extractors faster and trigger the timer before pugs manage to fill their raids with similar numbers.


    There's at lest few potential solutions which doesnt include removing of premades that Trion already said wont happen.

    1. Add a queue which last at least 5min. When 20man premade join CQ they can enter their faction only when other factions have the same amount of players.
    2. Reduce amount of how many players 1 premade can bring in to the CQ. This option will give every faction chance to get at least 1 decent group.
    3. Prevent timer from starting until CQ lasted for at least 10min or 250 kills was made. (this should give PUG's a bit more time to join and fill the factions + setup the raids)

    Both of these options will Improve CQ, however the second one will also make the fights more balanced, because fighting decent groups is harder than facerolling undergeared pugs.
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  2. #2
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    It's turning into a situation where premades made CQ their exclusive farming event. Everyone who doesn't manage to get in the same faction immediately deserts cq, and they win with 80% probability.

    And they're always the same people too.

    Not only during the night, but it's happening also during the day.
    Last edited by Sadtouch; 01-09-2015 at 06:57 AM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    you missed option #4: pugs spend 10 minutes prior to the CQ starting sorting their &%^# out and forming another premade.

    complaining about CQ lasting only ten minutes, when the premade spent closer to half an hour setting up their win.

    if you don't want to win, that's fine, that's your choice, you don't need to force yourself into socializing with others in a social game if you don't want too.
    but just because you aren't prepared to got that extra mile, doesn't mean you should deny others the choice of doing so if that is their desire.

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    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  4. #4
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    Conquest will continue to get smaller and smaller. They have removed CQ power, once you have your kills for the week, there is no need to enter until timer.

    It seems to have an unofficial name, timer hopping. Just wait for someone in one of the many CQ channels to call out timer.

    No more CQ power.
    Do not need much favor.
    Do not need any prestige.
    Do not need any void stones (to easy to max out for the week)
    Do not need any frozen hearts.

    So I have zero reason to enter CQ, ever. About the only people who need to enter CQ are raiders who need a heart. And guess what, they only need to timer hop.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    so....
    ... about on par with zone event boss kill shard hopping, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you missed option #4: pugs spend 10 minutes prior to the CQ starting sorting their &%^# out and forming another premade.

    complaining about CQ lasting only ten minutes, when the premade spent closer to half an hour setting up their win.

    if you don't want to win, that's fine, that's your choice, you don't need to force yourself into socializing with others in a social game if you don't want too.
    but just because you aren't prepared to got that extra mile, doesn't mean you should deny others the choice of doing so if that is their desire.
    You sound like you were afraid that premade will lose to PUG's if they wont have more people. All this is just supposed to make the numbers even. Premades arent losing anything here.
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  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Meaghanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you missed option #4: pugs spend 10 minutes prior to the CQ starting sorting their &%^# out and forming another premade.

    complaining about CQ lasting only ten minutes, when the premade spent closer to half an hour setting up their win.

    if you don't want to win, that's fine, that's your choice, you don't need to force yourself into socializing with others in a social game if you don't want too.
    but just because you aren't prepared to got that extra mile, doesn't mean you should deny others the choice of doing so if that is their desire.
    I agree with you most of the time but this cop out of everyone else that doesn't condone or is 110% happy with premades 24/7 is anti-social is moronic.

    Premades have been a defining force in CQ for years now and if you don't know the right people or don't have the correct spec for the make up of the premade people can be left out. This argument has been in play in the past and obviously it is more than just a social issue.

    Also, some people, like me, don't condone premades all the time, sure it's fun at times but most of the time it takes no skill or challenge to be successful in one. What's the point of PVP at that point?

    The issue is, the mechanics of the PVP in this game, especially the queue is based on solo queuing not premades although it is the mentaility of CQ.

    I agree with the OP another system/solution to the queue system needs to be looked at and implemented.

    PS: Who cares if someone takes 30+ minutes to create a premade, if that's what it takes to zerg and win, so be it.
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  8. #8
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meaghanne View Post
    I agree with you most of the time but this cop out of everyone else that doesn't condone or is 110% happy with premades 24/7 is anti-social is moronic.

    Premades have been a defining force in CQ for years now and if you don't know the right people or don't have the correct spec for the make up of the premade people can be left out. This argument has been in play in the past and obviously it is more than just a social issue.

    Also, some people, like me, don't condone premades all the time, sure it's fun at times but most of the time it takes no skill or challenge to be successful in one. What's the point of PVP at that point?

    The issue is, the mechanics of the PVP in this game, especially the queue is based on solo queuing not premades although it is the mentaility of CQ.

    I agree with the OP another system/solution to the queue system needs to be looked at and implemented.

    PS: Who cares if someone takes 30+ minutes to create a premade, if that's what it takes to zerg and win, so be it.
    I disagree. When I started running CQ a year and a half ago, i did not know anyone - yet I was able to run with all the leaders at that time. I just had to put myself out there. Sure, there were a couple of groups that would not take me, but i just ran with others - and we still managed to win our share of games. I even created some raids, i did not make calls, but i pulled raids into the match where everyone knew there roles.

    Also, I don't think people understand how fun CQ can actually be when you have 4-6 premades running -- it is what CQ was intended for, and it is the most fun i have had. If you try and make it where it is nothing more than just a bunch of solo folks running around, it will be a disaster. CQ is made for pre-builts, it is made for teams, not solo players. I don't mean that rude or disrespectful, but that is why it is there. Back when ABL, HK, Mage's group (can't remember guild name) and even solo forming folks like Dachro were all putting groups in the match it was pretty awesome to play. I wish people could see that and understand what CQ is.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Rheven's Avatar
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    Best thing they could do with CQ is put it out of its misery.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    I disagree. When I started running CQ a year and a half ago, i did not know anyone - yet I was able to run with all the leaders at that time. I just had to put myself out there. Sure, there were a couple of groups that would not take me, but i just ran with others - and we still managed to win our share of games. I even created some raids, i did not make calls, but i pulled raids into the match where everyone knew there roles.

    Also, I don't think people understand how fun CQ can actually be when you have 4-6 premades running -- it is what CQ was intended for, and it is the most fun i have had. If you try and make it where it is nothing more than just a bunch of solo folks running around, it will be a disaster. CQ is made for pre-builts, it is made for teams, not solo players. I don't mean that rude or disrespectful, but that is why it is there. Back when ABL, HK, Mage's group (can't remember guild name) and even solo forming folks like Dachro were all putting groups in the match it was pretty awesome to play. I wish people could see that and understand what CQ is.
    I have been running CQ for years and personally haven't had any issue getting into a premade if I ask (a few times there was drama with a member of ABL but that's neither here or there). I was speaking on behalf of others and a history of forum posts.

    I do recall when Prophecy and ABL and HK were/have been running CQ and it was premades vs. premades however lately from what I've seen (since my return to Rift full time) there isn't always premade v.premade anymore.

    I do agree wholeheartedly CQ is a group effort and is meant to use groups. My point is this, the queue system needs a re-work. Allow for changes such as the OP has suggested. I think CQ is a joke now, 10-15 minute wins?

    Dachro, RG, Mage, and Natureboyy have lead some of the most fun matches I've had and they were in premades. I can recall back in the day even Serjackums and I have lead pug raids in CQ against premades and actually won.

    The big issue at hand is, unless it is guaranteed premade vs. premade 100% of the time in CQ it's discouraging to some. If they're making winning everything to get in-game currencies then everyone needs to be on a level playing field. If it takes only allowing premades to queue that's fine (I still don't like the idea of premades stomping pugs) but make it fair...for everyone.

    This discussion has gone on forever now, it keeps creeping up but to the OP, you make good points.
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  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    Take away premade or limit them will not fix the bigger problem, befor cq 3.0 came out, people ask to turn it on cq, when I put in my input that premade queuing should be turn off, now that people see it better just afk and leave after few weeks premade eating up other team, people just gave up on cq,

    Even my self just gave up on it to even try anymore, just now in cq when few of us try to win, then most of the raid see that we are losing, then they all just mass leave, we just ending up with 5 people in are group.and this is not rare been happening a lot now.

    Going down that path with lack amount premade is not going level it self.
    Last edited by Zaber; 01-10-2015 at 04:31 AM.

  12. #12
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    Premades are fine *IF* there was balance.

    There should be a real CQ queue. If you join as a PM, you cannot enter til another PM of equal size queues up. At least this way 2 of the sides have a PM. If they end up sitting in queue without a chance to actually enter since no other PM wants to form, so be it. There will be times where only a single PM is available and the players themselves needs to decide if it's worth waiting in line and maybe have no chance at entering or reduce the size for a better chance. Or queue solo or very small group.

    Isn't WF done the same way? If you group up a 20 man PM, you will not automatically be put against another 20 pug wf in scion. Until another equal PM queues up for WF as well. The number varies depending on who is asking tho. But it seems like PM of 3-5 players is about the limit til the system puts you into a group queue.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Skid Rogue's Avatar
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    These conversation always center around pre-mades, but I don't think pre-mades are the problem. As someone pointed out, there's always been some form of pre-mades associated with CQ. As a very long time PUG, I don't blame the pre-mades for the state of CQ. I've seen them have to evolve and adapt their playing style over and over again to meet the changes on the field. I've seen them choose factions, change factions, dominate, fail, recruit, work on strategy and figure it out -- then have to start all over again because Trion changed something vital. If you've been doing this since the beginning it's really hard to lay the blame at the pre-mades' door. There's always some larger underlying factor that they're dealing with, too.

    However, there's definitely problem here. CQ is being played like a PVE event at the moment and it's not just happening during the off hours. When a single faction just rushes in and caps everything in 5 minutes, without engaging the enemy, it's pointless. Leadership style will probably eventually adapt to compensate for the quick, no kills win, but that's going to require enough players who are interested in CQ for that to evolve.

    Participation needs to go up, so there needs to be a "real" incentive to join. Then, perhaps, Trion could find a way to tie "kills" in with the win. You know, bring it all back home to PVP.
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  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Zaber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skid Rogue View Post
    These conversation always center around pre-mades, but I don't think pre-mades are the problem. As someone pointed out, there's always been some form of pre-mades associated with CQ. As a very long time PUG, I don't blame the pre-mades for the state of CQ. I've seen them have to evolve and adapt their playing style over and over again to meet the changes on the field. I've seen them choose factions, change factions, dominate, fail, recruit, work on strategy and figure it out -- then have to start all over again because Trion changed something vital. If you've been doing this since the beginning it's really hard to lay the blame at the pre-mades' door. There's always some larger underlying factor that they're dealing with, too.

    However, there's definitely problem here. CQ is being played like a PVE event at the moment and it's not just happening during the off hours. When a single faction just rushes in and caps everything in 5 minutes, without engaging the enemy, it's pointless. Leadership style will probably eventually adapt to compensate for the quick, no kills win, but that's going to require enough players who are interested in CQ for that to evolve.

    Participation needs to go up, so there needs to be a "real" incentive to join. Then, perhaps, Trion could find a way to tie "kills" in with the win. You know, bring it all back home to PVP.
    This is why I made a post about cq being on a timer rush then being a long battle being farmed or being the farmer, I see people join and staying when the timer hits, not when the game going on, if not to late when timer for that team. I think be more fun that way, even it may balance out with premade.
    Last edited by Zaber; 01-10-2015 at 09:21 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you missed option #4: pugs spend 10 minutes prior to the CQ starting sorting their &%^# out and forming another premade.

    complaining about CQ lasting only ten minutes, when the premade spent closer to half an hour setting up their win.

    if you don't want to win, that's fine, that's your choice, you don't need to force yourself into socializing with others in a social game if you don't want too.
    but just because you aren't prepared to got that extra mile, doesn't mean you should deny others the choice of doing so if that is their desire.
    Rift is a game, not a job. If joining Conquest with any hope of a decent game requires thirty minutes of 'work', then the system needs to be adjusted.

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