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Thread: Raiders vs PvPers: Should raiders be entitled to an advantage in pvp?

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Default Raiders vs PvPers: Should raiders be entitled to an advantage in pvp?

    Should raiders be entitled to an advantage in pvp?

    I think a lot of animosity (mainly from the pvp world) has come because of the revelation that raiders are being gifted an advantage (big or small) in the pvp world.

    We all understand that it's possible for everyone to gain this equipment. However, in order to remain competitive. A large group of people now feel pressured to grind their way into the raiding world. This endeavor is a big investment for lots of people. NTE and NM rifts might be unpleasant for some but acceptable. However, everyone even the dev's comment on how arduous the task of raiding is.

    The pressure the players feel to raid is real, especially considering the items you can only get from raid drops also the extra marks and of course the armor. You don't have to raid to get the armor portion but it can take several months just to get a few pieces if you grind out the marks.

    I do feel guilty getting raid armor from any other way other than raiding and I understand the raider's anger. At the same time I want BiS items in the activity I enjoy pvping.

    This situation puts us in odds with each other and creates a hostile involvement with in the game. Don't believe me? Try pveing as a seastone and see what responses you get from others.

    Strangely enough from what I've seen raiders and pvpers are in agreement in one area. They both believe the pvpers are getting shafted in the deal. Across the board this has been a unanimous consensus.

    On the boards I have seen plenty of raiders asking for the down-bolster of raid tier items. At the same time I haven't see any raiders advocating that the advantage they hold is fair. At most you might see one raider or two counter argue the same old "the difference isn't that bad" rhetoric (actually this has been the main and only argument). The difference in pvp performance instantly noticeable at only a few extra raid pieces and excessive when a player achieves multiple pieces. So far I equate it from warlord to myrm. Soon it will be the equivalent from warlord to fully golden runed relic myrm (for all of you who remember the old armor system).

    Which all leads back to the question: Should raiders be entitled to an advantage in pvp?

    I say no. They should be content with the achievements they earn in their exclusive environment. The gear that they earn will help them hold the advantage in the activity they participate in (raiding). As an added bonus they will also hold the advantage in world pvp/world rifts/NTE/instant rifts.

    Do we have to give them CQ and WF's as well?

    Now don't get me wrong I am all for armor progression with in pvp. But I strongly believe that past the NTE stage armor progression should be based off of pvp activities. Example (marks/chests for highest dps, kb, heals, absorbs, guard damage received, debuffs administered, objectives completed, or my favorite: the fernand never quiter bonus for those who endure a string a losing matches) Contribution awards.

    The above is a pipe dream I know but until then I don't think the solution is giving the advantage in pvp to an activity that has nothing to do with pvp.

    And from what I've seen thus far, the only people who think it is fair is Trion.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    I dont mind they have slightly better gear end game. I mind they run dungeons (not raids) and get their gear much much much much faster. I'm in the top50 leaderboards weekly and still have very little gear compared to those that run experts. Upgrade costs to get our pvp gear up to expert dungeon level is just too high.

    But so what if raiders can get better gear? I am sure there will be something relic for pvpers eventually in a patch.

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    Ascendant
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    BIS items should be split somehow equally across all content so this whole advantage wouldnt be as big.

    The problem is that atm Raids give a lot more BIS items compared to PvP. I hope this will change with CQ hearts and we'll get similar quality items as Raiders get. Weapons are the biggest issue here.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

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    Ascendant Rheven's Avatar
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    I don't raid. Probably never will. I rarely do dungeons. Can't think of one in more than a year. What I do is gathering and crafting (although this has been hosed in 3.0. Once you got the amenders no sense doing any more quests), carnage, rifts and open world quests. The rest of my time is spent in PvP. I used to understand how to advance my CTs. The only gear I had was PvP earned and purchased (one reason I didn't raid cause we were hosed there with PvP gear).

    Now I feel that my progression is based on winning the lottery and generally what I win is an average of 1.5 plat. Yah better tables would be nice but what was wrong with the method we had? Earning gear and progressing in WFs. Having priide in what we did there. Was it just easier and cheaper. I think that was basically it. It makes me sad.
    Seastone (All Defiant; All the Time)
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    Rift Disciple Dragonz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    BIS items should be split somehow equally across all content so this whole advantage wouldnt be as big.

    The problem is that atm Raids give a lot more BIS items compared to PvP. I hope this will change with CQ hearts and we'll get similar quality items as Raiders get. Weapons are the biggest issue here.
    You do understand the raid weapons don't just grow off of trees. Even if the weapon drops, you also need to understand that 50% of the time it's useless tank loot. Let me remind you it's not like I can down the same boss and farm it endlessly that same week for weapons because I CANT. So I have 1 chance to get a weapon for my class and 99% of the time it DOESNT HAPPEN.
    So you can understand my frustration when pvpers are screaming for gear progression in a broken system of grinding non stop in warfronts and buying weapons from a vendor for doing absolutely nothing competitive or teamwork based.
    -Smarted the Awesome

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser
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    This is all part of trions plan, they get rid of CQ power to **** tease you and now people are asking for CQ hearts

  7. #7
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    Something I just thought of.. and please correct me if this is totally off balance. Keeping the 'all gear is equal' theme, which it does not seem to be..

    What if the pvp boxes dropped random gear from experts? Maybe say each different map offered gear from a specific dungeon.

    Would this be unfair? Just farm a certain WF until you get that necklace you want. Maybe upgrade it to raid level with a somewhat rare drop from CQ.. pvp only to get your gear, but not instantly.

    Thoughts?
    You can find me on Deepwood. Playing Rift too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonz View Post
    You do understand the raid weapons don't just grow off of trees. Even if the weapon drops, you also need to understand that 50% of the time it's useless tank loot. Let me remind you it's not like I can down the same boss and farm it endlessly that same week for weapons because I CANT. So I have 1 chance to get a weapon for my class and 99% of the time it DOESNT HAPPEN.
    So you can understand my frustration when pvpers are screaming for gear progression in a broken system of grinding non stop in warfronts and buying weapons from a vendor for doing absolutely nothing competitive or teamwork based.
    I understand it and i never said that getting similar quality gear must be easier than raids. To emulate it i'd add pvp weekly which gives epic marauder box. This box would've a guranted drop of t1 like items, including tank weapons and armor parts. This would be very similar reward to raiding and gated in the same time, so pvers wouldnt be forced to farm pvp over and over.

    You may argue that getting this weekly done would be easier than killing some raid bosses but keep in mind that easy doesnt always mean fast, some quests require a lot of time invesetment despite being easy, besides diffulty is a matter of point of view, for some even walking out of red aoe is nearly impossible ;)
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    I understand it and i never said that getting similar quality gear must be easier than raids. To emulate it i'd add pvp weekly which gives epic marauder box. This box would've a guranted drop of t1 like items, including tank weapons and armor parts. This would be very similar reward to raiding and gated in the same time, so pvers wouldnt be forced to farm pvp over and over.

    You may argue that getting this weekly done would be easier than killing some raid bosses but keep in mind that easy doesnt always mean fast, some quests require a lot of time invesetment despite being easy, besides diffulty is a matter of point of view, for some even walking out of red aoe is nearly impossible ;)
    If you give PvP a way to get it, you then give Raiders two ways to get. You're back in the same boat.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motoboat View Post
    This is all part of trions plan, they get rid of CQ power to **** tease you and now people are asking for CQ hearts :(
    The Heart thing is actually worse than CQ Power. It's the Trion MO with PvP development: "you think it's bad now? Try this!"

    QED: SOI CQ, KR:D, Roguechamber, Gyel Healfest.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 01-07-2015 at 05:17 PM.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonz View Post
    You do understand the raid weapons don't just grow off of trees. Even if the weapon drops, you also need to understand that 50% of the time it's useless tank loot. Let me remind you it's not like I can down the same boss and farm it endlessly that same week for weapons because I CANT. So I have 1 chance to get a weapon for my class and 99% of the time it DOESNT HAPPEN.
    So you can understand my frustration when pvpers are screaming for gear progression in a broken system of grinding non stop in warfronts and buying weapons from a vendor for doing absolutely nothing competitive or teamwork based.
    This is why I said I feel guilty for getting the raid weapons. And adds to the argument that pvp needs to be capped at the NTE level. In my eyes its a great an achievement that you get your raid weapons but at the same time, I don't think it should be granted a bonus in pvp.

    It's a slap in the face of someone whose dedicated 1XX+ hours of pvp time yet has no chance whatever of attaining that same item (among any of the others).

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara
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    So when PvE gear was BiS, there was a lot of *****ing. Something about OP-as-**** procs. When CQ was released, there was a lot of *****ing. Something about pseudo-PvP and OP rewards. When CQ RICs were released, there was a lot of *****ing. Something about RNG and over-emphasis on the last 5m of a match. When gear unification was released, there was a lot of *****ing. Something about no longer having PvP gear progression. When CQ was re-released, there was a lot of *****ing. Something about hearts. When PvE gear was BiS again, there was a lot of *****ing. Something about more OP-as-**** procs.

    How the **** do you all ***** so much but stay with the game?

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    In the perfect world there should be at least some BIS things from pvp. Be it, trinket like before, maybe 1 ring, 1 earring, dunno, just some things.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enternasia View Post
    If you give PvP a way to get it, you then give Raiders two ways to get. You're back in the same boat.
    so what? you can do raids too if you want to have 2 ways of getting BIS gear. Just because you dont want to raid it doesnt mean it shouldnt have any good rewards. There are pvers who dont want to pvp as well. BIS items should require participating in pve and pvp.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaramuccia View Post
    How the **** do you all ***** so much but stay with the game?
    But my friend, I don't think you understand. For some, *****ing is the game.

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