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Thread: [Suggestions] Changes to improve gear rewards from warfronts.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Default [Suggestions] Changes to improve gear rewards from warfronts.

    Before I start, I want to explain the point of this thread.
    This thread is meant to be constructive and provide suggestions regarding the state of gear rewards gained from warfronts. I am going out of my way to write such a lengthy post just like I did for the Mage suggestion thread.
    The thread is opened to discussions, comments and feedback so long as it is kept on track and not derailed.
    Please, let's try to make the best out of this thread.

    This post will be in 2 parts.
    The first part is my suggestion to improve gear rewards from warfronts. Feel free to discuss what you think about it.
    I will edit the suggestion as feedback comes in to try to reach something that most people can agree with.

    For the second part, I leave it opened to the other posters to provide their own suggestions for me to list in this post so we can consolidate the suggestions people most agree about into the same post to make it easier for Trion to read.
    If the second part appear unsuccessful, I can always simply remove it.

    While I understand some people do not see eyes to eyes with me on the forum (or in game), please do set aside what you think of me for this thread's sake and let's keep it as ordered as possible.
    Thank you.

    P.S. This post is subject to edits. Keep that in mind when quoting this post.

    My suggestion
    Before I start with the suggestion, here is a list of purely opinion-based statements regarding how I believe gear should be separated for different content in the game.
    I will refer to Warfront, Expert dungeon, Raids and other similar activities as "content" with no affiliation to PvE or PvP whatsoever.
    • There is 3 tiers of content, in order of highest to lowest: Raid, Expert, World
    • Raiding is part of the Raid tier.
    • Warfront and Expert dungeon are part of the Expert tier.
    • Any other activities that are below Warfront and Expert Dungeons in terms of effort are part of the World tier.
    • Each activities in every tiers should provide gear for their own tiers.
    • Any and all activities should provide currencies toward buying gear of every tiers. (Already the case)

    As for the rest of it, I will try to stay as objective as I can with the idea that this list contains objective-based statements rather than opinion-based statements.

    This being said, here's my suggestion...

    Marauder Boxes
    • Still gain one when winning a Warfront.
    • As a very high change (Possibly 100%) of dropping Marauder Gear.
    • As a X% chance of dropping Y's Marauder Shards. Y being the corresponding gear slot of the shard. (See Marauder Shards section for explanation)
    • As a chance of dropping PvP related Bounty Artifacts and Minions.
    Essentially the same as before at the exception of Marauder Shards now dropping and Marauder Gear being a very high drop rate. This drop rate needs to be very high to keep it constant with Expert Dungeons.

    Marauder Gear
    Marauder Gear is now baseline Rare (Blue) Expert tier gear rather than World tier gear.
    This means that it is the same level as Rare (Blue) Expert Dungeon drops. (125 hit pieces and such)
    The Marauder Gear can be upgraded into Dreambreaker Gear using a combination of corresponding Marauder Shards, a corresponding Advanced Amender, lot of Favor Accelerators and possibly a very low amount of Crusader Upgrade Parts or none at all.

    Alternatively, there can be 2 upgrades. The first being Dreambreaker without Synergy costing corresponding Marauder Shards and lot of Favor Accelerators. The second upgrade to make the Dreambreaker Synergized or gain it's weapon proc and require the corresponding Advanced Amender and an amount of Crusader Upgrade Parts equal to upgrading an expert Epic piece into it's synergized version.

    Furthermore, Belt, Gloves and Boots should only be upgraded using the same amount of components as the Expert Dungeons versions in order to keep it constant with the fact that there is no epic drops for those gear slots in Expert Dungeons.
    As for rings, those should simply not have the possibility of an upgrade since there is no rings in Expert Dungeons that can be upgraded into epic and there is no epic rings drop either.

    Marauder Shards
    The Marauders Shards include the following:
    • Helmet Marauder Shard
    • Shoulders Marauder Shard
    • Chest Marauder Shard
    • Legs Marauder Shard
    • Necklace Marauder Shard
    • Earrings Marauder Shard
    • Weapons Marauder Shard
    • Ranged Weapon Marauder Shard
    To keep it constant, there shouldn't be any Belt, Gloves, Boots or Rings Marauder Shards.

    The amount of Marauder Shards required to upgrade each items and the % chance for each of them to drop should be set in order to keep Expert Dungeons and Warfronts at a similar rate of Epic Gear gain.

    Gear Stats
    The Marauder Gear and Dreambreaker Gear stats should be similar to the gear dropped from dungeons, if not exactly the same as their Expert Dungeon counterparts.
    At best, the stat on the Marauder Gear and Dreambreaker should have similar Endurance and Main Stats with only the Sub Stats (AP, SP, Crit, CP) being randomized.

    Weapons procs for Dreambreaker Gear should be similar to Expert Dungeons Weapons.

    Bolstering
    Up bolster should provide World level gear.
    Down bolster should have it's ceiling set at Epic Expert level gear equal to the Dreambreaker or Epic Expert Dungeon drops.
    Raid level gear shouldn't affect Warfronts until there is PvPcentric content that is equal to Raid Tier level content to allow for an alternate way to obtain Raid level gear in PvPcentric content.

    Extra
    Change the Marauder chests into the following:
    • Port Scion Marauder chest - Chance to drop Chest Marauder Shard
    • Blighted Antechamber Marauder chest - Chance to drop Shoulders Marauder Shard
    • Black Garden Marauder chest - Chance to drop Necklace Marauder Shard
    • Codex Marauder chest - Chance to drop Legs Marauder Shard
    • Whitefall Steppes Marauder chest - Chance to drop Earrings Marauder Shard
    • Karthan Ridge Marauder chest - Chance to drop Helmet Marauder Shard
    • Conquest Marauder chest - Chance to drop Weapons or Ranged Weapon Marauder Shard
    • Screw Ghar Station Eyn
    Pretty self explanatory.
    Winning a certain Warfront or a Conquest grant you with that Warfront/Conquest specific chest. Each Warfronts or the Conquests have their own Marauder Shards but the rest of the drops are the same for all the chests.

    This way, it will keep it much like Expert Dungeon in a way that someone will have to specific queue for a certain warfront in order to gain access to the Shard he wants without hoping for Random Warfront to give them the Warfront they want.

    This is on the "extra" section because it may affect Warfront queuing negatively.

    Your suggestions
    This is the part where I will list any suggestions made that received positive response from the other players in this thread. It is currently empty as the thread is still new.
    Last edited by Snap; 01-02-2015 at 03:55 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Judging by what they put out in the expac I do not believe they give one groat for us pvpers. I open Marauder boxes and break whatever is there to stars. The drops are not only bad they cost a fortune to upgrade to a crap state. The actions they have taken towards pvpers show their complete lack of regard for pvp. That being said...

    I appreciate the time and effort and thought that went into your post. You obviously care greatly about the game and see pvp just going away. We have lost so many that one premade entering a wf or bg upsets the balance of the whole game. I would love to have pvp gear progression back. I am not the best, just a utility player, but the games needs us. I worked my way up to full Myrm and befort expac I could compete. I didn't always win but I could compete. Now I usually leave before a game ends. I hate being like an ear of corn always being farmed.

  3. #3
    Prophet of Telara
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    I like your idea.

    This is my simple idea I came up with some time ago:

    - Marauder gear should be best in slot for pvp. In order to do so you need to bring back Vengeance so Marauder gear will be inferior in PvE compared to mark/raid gear.

    - Lower the other stats to compensate for Vengeance

    - Lower the number of possible gear stats. Make only 2 sets - offensive one with high primary/secondary stats and low end and defensive one with high end and low pri/sec stats. Convert the ones without secondary stats and high end to defensive one. This way there will be only 6 versions of each gear piece.

    - Allow changing of stats (SP/AP, Crit, CP) just like raid mark gear. Use favor accelerators for that.

    - Slightly increase gear drop rate

    - Decrease mark cost of upgrade and increase favor cost to compensate

    - Give us another upgrade path for Marauder gear to raid epic level. It should require a LOT of favor accelerators and an item that would be similar to a pvp version of RIC. It would drop from CQ, Marauder boxes (very, very low chance) and could also be asembled from shards. You get shards from PvP quests, CQ and boxes.

    - create healing weapons and other missing gear pieces as marauder gear

    As you can see the majority of these ideas have already been in the game (or sth similar). I realy don`t know why Trion decided to remove them.

    The current system is very bad imo. Seeing ppl with raid gear having an advantage (like for example OP healing Trinkets) is just sad. Ppl should also not be forced to do things they don`t like. Atm we got both PvPers doing PvE and PvErs doing PvP, which they don`t like.
    Last edited by Lokken`; 01-02-2015 at 07:08 AM.
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  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    Edit timer

    - the last Tier of Marauder gear requires r100
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  5. #5
    Rift Master Sezex's Avatar
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    This will happen.... in 10.0

  6. #6
    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    Sounds like some good ideas. There is still some problems. Would have to come up with a way to get Notoriety for Earring, Neck, Focus, Seal, and Trinket Runes. Need to come up with a way to get voidstones and Nightmare Rift achievements for Essences.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by July13th View Post
    Sounds like some good ideas. There is still some problems. Would have to come up with a way to get Notoriety for Earring, Neck, Focus, Seal, and Trinket Runes. Need to come up with a way to get voidstones and Nightmare Rift achievements for Essences.
    There was always some PvE needed to max your stats in PvP. I can live with that.

    What is unacceptible is that doing 10man and 20man raids give you a clear advantage over a pure PvP (much faster raid mark gain + some BiS gear you will never get from PvP).
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  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Osirian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokken` View Post
    I like your idea.

    This is my simple idea I came up with some time ago:

    - Marauder gear should be best in slot for pvp. In order to do so you need to bring back Vengeance so Marauder gear will be inferior in PvE compared to mark/raid gear.

    - Lower the other stats to compensate for Vengeance

    - Lower the number of possible gear stats. Make only 2 sets - offensive one with high primary/secondary stats and low end and defensive one with high end and low pri/sec stats. Convert the ones without secondary stats and high end to defensive one. This way there will be only 6 versions of each gear piece.

    - Allow changing of stats (SP/AP, Crit, CP) just like raid mark gear. Use favor accelerators for that.

    - Slightly increase gear drop rate

    - Decrease mark cost of upgrade and increase favor cost to compensate

    - Give us another upgrade path for Marauder gear to raid epic level. It should require a LOT of favor accelerators and an item that would be similar to a pvp version of RIC. It would drop from CQ, Marauder boxes (very, very low chance) and could also be asembled from shards. You get shards from PvP quests, CQ and boxes.

    - create healing weapons and other missing gear pieces as marauder gear

    As you can see the majority of these ideas have already been in the game (or sth similar). I realy don`t know why Trion decided to remove them.

    The current system is very bad imo. Seeing ppl with raid gear having an advantage (like for example OP healing Trinkets) is just sad. Ppl should also not be forced to do things they don`t like. Atm we got both PvPers doing PvE and PvErs doing PvP, which they don`t like.
    No...no...no. If you have played the past 2 or more years than you should know that one BIG problem was the pve'ers complaining about getting ***** by pvp gear. Leave out the pvp stats and simply make the pvp gear best equiv to the raiding gear best. I would much rather have lesser gear than pve'ers than hear the whining about how it is unfair. Besides its funny to demolish someone in epics because they back pedal.

  9. #9
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    you're just adding rng pvp gear while making any raid gear pvpers have picked up with fragments or from sparkle caches completely useless.

    taking things away from players has never worked in a mmo.
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  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    No...no...no. If you have played the past 2 or more years than you should know that one BIG problem was the pve'ers complaining about getting ***** by pvp gear.
    PvP gear with the changes I`m proposing will be weaker in PvE compared to PvE gear so how can they be complaing ?
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  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    No...no...no. If you have played the past 2 or more years than you should know that one BIG problem was the pve'ers complaining about getting ***** by pvp gear. Leave out the pvp stats and simply make the pvp gear best equiv to the raiding gear best. I would much rather have lesser gear than pve'ers than hear the whining about how it is unfair. Besides its funny to demolish someone in epics because they back pedal.
    They already implemented a bolstering system to deal with the discrepancy between pvp and pve. If there was a problem it was directly related to this system not the gear.

    Also, pve'ers were the ones who actually called for separation of gear. It only took four months of extremely casual play to get top end pvp gear in early SL. And that was due to marks.. You could do it less if you were able to get in premades and max rank 90 asap.

    The pvp gear I am getting now is not worth the upgrade because it cost way too much and doesn't even have the hit requirement to get to next tier raiding when fully upgraded. People are earning raid gear before they have earned enough to upgrade pvp gear fully without stepping foot in a raid as well. The current pvp gear needs to be upgradeable throughout NT if they want to keep it at this pace and you shouldn't need a heart to upgrade it either. It should be a few raid marks, dungeon marks and void marks.
    Last edited by Planetx; 01-02-2015 at 01:59 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    No...no...no. If you have played the past 2 or more years than you should know that one BIG problem was the pve'ers complaining about getting ***** by pvp gear. Leave out the pvp stats and simply make the pvp gear best equiv to the raiding gear best. I would much rather have lesser gear than pve'ers than hear the whining about how it is unfair. Besides its funny to demolish someone in epics because they back pedal.
    This is pretty much the reason why they removed any distinction between PvE and PvP.

    We aren't playing PvE or PvP anymore.
    We are playing content in Rift.

    Whether it's Warfronts, Expert Dungeons, Raids, Nightmare Rifts or Daily Quests, those are all contents.
    When it comes to gear, it should be granted depending on the content you do.
    Warfronts isn't hard to do. It doesn't matter the amount of effort you put into warfront, you will win eventually. At best, it is of the same level of Expert Dungeons in terms of content.
    To win in raids you need to put in efforts, hence why they should give raid gear and not warfronts (or conquest).

    This is the whole idea behind my suggestion. That Warfronts should be equivalent to Expert dungeons, not raids, not other world content.
    It should provide the same rewards as expert dungeons.
    Being the highest content possible that include PvP, it should also be the highest tier of gear for content including PvP. Hence having the down-bolster have Expert Gear level as the ceiling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokken
    PvP gear with the changes I`m proposing will be weaker in PvE compared to PvE gear so how can they be complaing ?
    The whole point of gear unification is to allow for PvE players to join in PvP and PvP players to join in PvE without having a double grind to do. There is no PvE or PvP anymore and you now gain gear for playing content.
    It's hard to swallow, but this system is better than a separate PvE versus PvP system. Much better. They only need to fix the rewarding system of warfronts to make them on par with Expert Dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecru
    you're just adding rng pvp gear while making any raid gear pvpers have picked up with fragments or from sparkle caches completely useless.

    taking things away from players has never worked in a mmo.
    I am very well aware of that Ecru. But any change they make at this point is gonna make people angry no matters what. They NEED to make a change and if it ruffle a couple feathers in the process, so what? People will always find something to complain about.
    The raid gear players got doesn't become useless all of a sudden. It would be down bolstered to the best gear for warfronts and still be the better gear for all other content.

    As for the RNG on gear, that's how it always worked. As much as I hate RNG, it is one of the best way to increase the longevity of an MMORPG... Most people love casino style boxes (even if we say otherwise. I like them while I hate them. I love opening them. I hate the RNG of it.) and it make the grind much longer with less emphasis on the "grind" part of it.
    Last edited by Snap; 01-02-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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  13. #13
    Plane Touched Illuyanka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    No...no...no. If you have played the past 2 or more years than you should know that one BIG problem was the pve'ers complaining about getting ***** by pvp gear. Leave out the pvp stats and simply make the pvp gear best equiv to the raiding gear best. I would much rather have lesser gear than pve'ers than hear the whining about how it is unfair. Besides its funny to demolish someone in epics because they back pedal.
    O.o Fox still plays? If I ever found him in a WF I think I would remember... Or the stab scars would remind me.

    Anyway, here are my suggestions:

    Add a 1% chance for marauder boxes to drop accelerators. With each pvp rank gained, this % will slightly increase, let's say, up to 15-20% at max rank. At rank 100, add a 1-3% chance to drop raid gear (from the raids or its almost exact eqivalen- no stupidly high endurance BS)
    Add a low chance for marauder boxes to drop void stones.

    Add a 20% chance for marauser boxes to drop "box of marauder antiques", which has a chance to reward reputation according to your level, crafting materials according to your crafting level, and maybe even some recipes. (Maybe a marauder's ammender and reduce the ACA's needed to upgrade pvp items?)

    And last but not least, add a chance for marauders bxes to drop tank gear. the gear would be awesome for tanks because of the endurance, but it has no guard dodge and block.
    Last edited by Illuyanka; 01-02-2015 at 06:00 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I think Trion needs to make changes to how the pvp gear acquisition works, but I think they are pretty limited in the options they have since NT has been running for a while already. In my opinion there are 2 problems with the way gear acquisition works in PvP. It takes way too long to get a full set of bis gear and there is no viable option of having intermediate level gear. The upgrade costs are so high that you will never upgrade an item that is not best in slot, the only logical pvp gear progression path is to simply stack up your marks until you get an item with high mainstat+offstat+end+CP, upgrade it to max and repeat.

    Reducing the amount of grind required to get items is as simple as just boosting the drop rate on items. Somewhere in the range of 100-200% more sounds reasonable to me. While it would be nice to have a RNG free option of acquiring gear, I think it would be very hard to do that in a way that does so in a simple way without hurting the longevity added by the pvp gear grind too much.

    Making it viable to upgrade less than bis gear requires some more work. What I would suggest is: drop upgrade costs for items without offstat (eg: str+end+AP) by 75%. Drop upgrade costs for items with offstat but with main stat end (eg: 159 str, 100 dex, 200 end, 304 cp) by 50%. Drop upgrade costs for the best stat configurations (eg: 200 str, 100 dex, 159 end, 304 cp) by 25%.

    The combination of those changes should make it way faster to reach a basic gear set through pvping. This is really needed, since getting a set of blue gear from experts is just way faster and also much better gear than unupgraded pvp gear. At the same time, the grind for bis gear remains mostly intact (I wonder if a 100% boost in pvp item drop rate would even be noticeable, it really is that low). I think this would give a much better sense of progression.
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  15. #15
    Plane Touched Fusscle's Avatar
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    I think it's a very good suggestion. Well thought out, and sensible.

    Understandably not as nice for those who already have raid gear, but a line does need to be drawn somewhere.

    And raid gear can be used for raiding....
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