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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Wow the new patch is a S

  1. #16
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    @Talzoor
    Those are not facts, those are your opinion.

    The facts are:
    - To get the best Expert level gear, you need to PvP. (Dreambreaker)
    - The raid gear is better than expert level gear for PvP.
    - The raid gear is still obtainable without ever stepping into raids. (Fragments of Horror)
    - It is easier to obtain raid gear by doing PvE. (Duh!)
    - It is even easier to obtain raid gear by doing both PvE and PvP. (Double Duh!)

    Those are facts.

    The only real changes needed for PvP is for raid gear to get down bolstered and weapons/trinket procs to have their PvP reduction fixed.

    The old system was anything but fair. The only way you could compete in PvP was to have close to full Warlord gear or higher.

    @Mintyman
    There is still progression, you need to get better gear and you can do it in PvP.
    Do you have full Frost Keeper's relic gear yet?
    If they implemented down bolster for raid gear, do you have full Dreambreaker yet?

    Is it perfect? No, of course not. Perfection doesn't exist.
    Is it better? Yes, absolutely. PvP never have been so balanced toward skills even with all the exploits from crystals, weapon procs and broken abilities.
    Last edited by Snap; 12-17-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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  2. #17
    Ascendant Bloodbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talzoor View Post
    you're probably a raider who has access to the equipment OR your a white knight who has blinded themselves to their new blatant marketing strategy.
    I PvP'd all through Vanilla, SL, and now 3.0. I'm sorry but people need to stop QQ'ing about losing their Myrmidon Relics... It was a 100% gear reset. Just like in SL. What about that is so hard to understand. I hit PvP hard as soon as I hit 65, and now have every piece of PvP gear. Do I use all of it? No. I can tell you right now, there are plenty of other PvP warriors with gear at or above my level. Put in the time, just like you did for Myrm gear. Did you get p90 in a month (CQ exploit aside...)? Full PvP relics in a month? Yea, its a grind, everything in every mmo ever is a grind.

    All this crying, cause your Relics got taken away... well so did all the Dragonslayers... and what did they do? Blew through a thousand experts then hit the raids face first. If you don't LIKE to PvE, don't do it. Just like there are tons of people who don't do the PvP dailies/weeklies, because they don't like PvP.

    What it boils down to, most people who were P90, got there riding the CQ zergs, and can't actually PvP without a gear advantage. I know, because those same people were the first to cry about OP this and OP that, with regards to PvE gear... While I still see people who are TRULY good PvPers, in **** gear, still doing better than the vast majority (Team Rottweiler.... seriously... too many blues).

    I saw a warrior and cleric duo in Codex the other day, all in P90 gear, mostly relic'd, at 65... keyboard turning, fighting on bridge, warrior attacking a tank, cleric running the second she got targeted... P90 doesn't mean **** anymore, bad players stand out, regardless. It's just more obvious right now.
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  3. #18
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post

    Honestly, if you really think most people are leaving for legit reasons, you are very naive.
    Everyone is an ahole.
    Everyone think they are the best at the game when it's all about disparity and OP FOTM.
    Anyone can cherry pick a rage induced quit post with little rational basis. But with a lot of bias aside, the methods of the game to a player who focused on PvP, exclusively, prior to 3.0, has changed a lot. It's always going to be an MMO and in essence the same bag of tricks. But even I got a taste of reasons to leave before 3.0. The changing the playing method of a game I quasi-enjoyed was the breaking point. Because I got a good taste of the playerbase and "scene" that was the "PvP scene" of the game. Filled with apathy, lack of will to push for a win, people who give up, lame players who think creative gameplay is an exploit etc, the list could go on. At this point the game could become far better but will get dragged down by the bulk of players left in participation.

    I feel my reason was legit. I wanted PvP, so I found some I could enjoy. Easy as that. Sig shows it. Great game, great experiences and great matches really. Merely one of the games I've picked up. Rift had its good times for me. What boggles me is people who beg day after day for this essence and style of gameplay they feel Rift should have in regards to competitive gameplay, when there are plenty of games and genres who do it way better out there.

    Just not sure what you are defending. Rift is far from the same game. Content changes and mechanics change, but the damn routine changed for the common PvP'er. That is the breaking point. I enjoyed my routine and even reading 3 - 4 weeks before 3.0 came out, it was quite clear the game was due for a change of active routine when engaging in it, I saw the direction, and just made a clear choice to drop it. PvP seemed to go from a main dish to a side meal in Rift.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    The facts are:
    - To get the best Expert level gear, you need to PvP. (Dreambreaker)
    - The raid gear is better than expert level gear for PvP.
    - The raid gear is still obtainable without ever stepping into raids. (Fragments of Horror)
    - It is easier to obtain raid gear by doing PvE. (Duh!)
    - It is even easier to obtain raid gear by doing both PvE and PvP. (Double Duh!)
    Other facts:
    - To progress in pvp (warfronts) you used to play pvp
    - Progression was on a level playingfield relative to other participants, especially prior to cq
    - The more pvp you played and the more you won, relative to the other player, the bigger gear advantage you would have
    - Once upon a time, gaining notoriety from warfront factions had a meaning, now you have to pve to get faction to get gear

    There is only one improvement I can see for the pvp centric player, that he/she can now take part in dungeons etc due to the gear unification.
    But overall 3.0 has been a slap in the face for the pvp centric, and a boon for the pve centric.

  5. #20
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashgaroth View Post
    Other facts:
    - To progress in pvp (warfronts) you used to play pvp
    - Progression was on a level playingfield relative to other participants, especially prior to cq
    - The more pvp you played and the more you won, relative to the other player, the bigger gear advantage you would have
    - Once upon a time, gaining notoriety from warfront factions had a meaning, now you have to pve to get faction to get gear

    There is only one improvement I can see for the pvp centric player, that he/she can now take part in dungeons etc due to the gear unification.
    But overall 3.0 has been a slap in the face for the pvp centric, and a boon for the pve centric.
    They always said (and you can find quotes from devs on this) that they "want you to play all aspects of the game", or rather, as many as possible. I literally think 3.0 was made to drive away players who don't want to play all aspects. Because even though it may seem like a better life for PvE'ers. Even before, they didn't have to do a insane amount of PvP to be a boss hog raider. I think 3.0 is for the hybrid player who enjoys both sides equally. Because now you really do have to participate in both aspects to a decent degree to reap the best progression. I see the design the structure from a glance - I see more ploys to get PvE'ers in PvP environments, and much more new found ways to get PvP'ers in PvE environments. I think the most frustrated are the ones who liked to sway heavily to one side. I know many who enjoyed both just as much it seemed. It seems though as if they are trying to push away the people who *don't* want to participate in all the content by proxy, making it so the best results are gained by doing so. You still had to do content outside of PvP'ing before 3.0, but not as strong. And I think vice versa with PvE.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    They always said (and you can find quotes from devs on this) that they "want you to play all aspects of the game", or rather, as many as possible. I literally think 3.0 was made to drive away players who don't want to play all aspects. Because even though it may seem like a better life for PvE'ers. Even before, they didn't have to do a insane amount of PvP to be a boss hog raider. I think 3.0 is for the hybrid player who enjoys both sides equally. Because now you really do have to participate in both aspects to a decent degree to reap the best progression. I see the design the structure from a glance - I see more ploys to get PvE'ers in PvP environments, and much more new found ways to get PvP'ers in PvE environments. I think the most frustrated are the ones who liked to sway heavily to one side. I know many who enjoyed both just as much it seemed. It seems though as if they are trying to push away the people who *don't* want to participate in all the content by proxy, making it so the best results are gained by doing so. You still had to do content outside of PvP'ing before 3.0, but not as strong. And I think vice versa with PvE.
    I would have had no problem at all if that was their design scheme from jump. But RIFT was billed as a "play as you'd like to" game at it's inception and for several years after launch. That has changed and therefore so has my focus for gaming time.
    If you have to ask...you don't need to know.

  7. #22
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    @Violacea

    That's why I never said "everyone" in any of my posts (At least I don't think I did).

    Of course there are people with legit reason to leave, but most of the leavers doesn't have any legit reason. They simply leave because they can't handle having to improve in order to actually win. And I am sick of all the people saying they left because PvP got ruined. PvP didn't get ruined, it's the complete opposite.
    In your case, it looks more to me like you were going to leave one day or another, 3.0 or not. Seems like you were just tired of the genre.

    And you ask me what I'm trying to defend?
    I'm trying to defend a better PvP for Rift.
    PvP in an MMORPG isn't the same as a MOBA, FPS or Fighter.
    I want to play a game that make me have to use 30 keybinds in order to be effective. I don't want a game without healers, I don't want a 1v1 game either. I don't want 1 bullet to the head games, nor do I want an hero that start at level 1 every game I play.
    I've played PvP in WoW for nearly 7 years, I've spent the entire Burning Crusade in arenas and battleground for nearly 70% of my play time. I've went to raid in PvP gear to outDPS raiders using Shockadin for christ sake...
    There is no better PvP for me than PvP that make me use my keyboard like a piano.
    WoW Burning Crusade was the golden years of PvP for me.
    3.0. is actually reminding me of what I felt in battlegrounds during WoW:BC.
    Those moment of standing in the middle of Warsong Gulch with a flag in my hands and my healer friend by my side, taking down any horde that dared come close.
    Or those times when I kited someone around a berzerker hut trying to stay alive before turning around and executing that person in a perfect combo.
    I'm living those same things in Rift right now. From standing like a wall in front of my team so my healers can heal me safely from the back, to taking the spire in Blighted Antechamber with clever use of knockbacks and burst, to faking a jump off a ledge just so people throw themselves down to try and finish me.

    So what's better PvP for Rift to me?
    It's PvP where what I do actually matters.
    This is why I love Blighted Antechamber and Port Scion. It feels like no matter what team you get or what you face, there is always somewhere on the map you can be to at least try to tip the balance in your favor.
    I want better maps to play with, no Fang Garden, no Library of Crapmasters.
    I want maps with more objectives. I want a berzerker and healing chest like in WoW. I'd love arenas even tho it would favor FOTM.

    Here something I'd love to see...
    Whitefall steppes objectives to be changed into having multiple objectives:
    • Capture the flag - 1 flag per base. Capturing the enemy flag is an instant win for your team. You require your own flag in order to win. Flag bearer is slowed by 50% and cannot use movespeed increase or blinks/charges with the flag. To pick up a flag, you must do a 10 seconds cast time.
    • Deathmatch - First team to 100 (more or less) kills win the game automatically.
    • Source Power - Source stones appear at different points on the other team side. Some in the base, some outside. The further the source stone is inside the enemy territory/base, the more points it gives. The Source stone disappear if dropped by a carrier (by bringing it to their base, death of the carrier or just dropping it) and respawn after a certain amount of time. When successfully carrying a stone to your own base, grant energy to your source cannon. Upon reaching full energy, you win the game.

    This is what I'd really love to see. 3 ways to win a game. Multiple objectives to cover.
    But realistically, I just want the game I enjoy to be better in all it's aspect.

    Because I play this game, I love this game and I want it to be better. But it's hard for it to be better when so many people are crying left and right instead of being actually constructive about something.
    Gear unification was done, whether people like it or not. People left, good or bad, it doesn't matter. What matters now is for people to stop acting like kids and actually play the game and learn how to play it.
    Because, just like for PvE, when someone clearly outperforming me or do something I can't explain, I'll ask how he/she did it and try to learn from it.
    This is the real problem with people. It's the same for both PvP and PvE. Players do not want to learn how to improve. They all want everything handled to them and for it to be easy mode. They want to feel the gratification now rather than actually earn it.

    Those kind of people will never know how great it feels to actually be called a cheater when you are simply being more clever than them.
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  8. #23
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flair View Post
    I would have had no problem at all if that was their design scheme from jump. But RIFT was billed as a "play as you'd like to" game at it's inception and for several years after launch. That has changed and therefore so has my focus for gaming time.
    Which paradoxically, if that was their design scheme from the start, I wouldn't have ended up become as vested into the game as I did. I agree. But I can't really be too bitter. I had my time with Rift and it was short lived. I've even having more fun goofing off in some fun single player mode games if I don't feel like doing the whole online competing thing. So many games...so little time.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  9. #24
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    Too much wall of text up in here.

    Bottom line: Our new raider overlords are happy. PVPers are not.
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  10. #25
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    Too much wall of text up in here.

    Bottom line: Our new raider overlords are happy. PVPers are not.
    I'll resume it for you.

    I'm 10x the PvPer you will ever be and I am happy.
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  11. #26
    Rift Chaser kronous's Avatar
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    If you have to raid to get BIS pvp gear that's just wrong. There is no arguing that I'm sorry.

    Before 3.0 both pvp and pve communities were catered for. Not sure why they changed that.
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  12. #27
    Plane Walker Kartia's Avatar
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    My 2 wishes:
    Reduce accelerator amount for upgrade the pvp gear from chest, for example 1st upgrade only cost favor, 2nd cost 2 accelerators and favor. I have 1 weapon drop from chest, if I would upgrade it would have more than 300 CP, but the upgrade needs more than 50K void stone.

    Marauder chest should drop more times and not just gear, but maybe vials/tokens, consumable, pvp runes (where are the pvp runes like we had in the end of SL?). Get rid of the trash marauder gear pieces, they are a big waste.

    In this way pvp players could gear up without doing too much pve. They still need to grind out rep, NMR for minmax.

  13. #28
    Rift Chaser kronous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snap View Post
    I'll resume it for you.

    I'm 10x the PvPer you will ever be and I am happy.
    I know by name most of the good pvpers before 3.0. But I don't ever remember seeing yours.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronous View Post
    I know by name most of the good pvpers before 3.0. But I don't ever remember seeing yours.
    That would mean something if it wasn't self-perpetuating friends list qualifications.

  15. #30
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronous View Post
    I know by name most of the good pvpers before 3.0. But I don't ever remember seeing yours.
    Nor do I remember yours from pre 3.0.

    I don't believe you know any of my characters name in all the MMOs I played aside from the 4 mentioned in my signature do you?

    I would leave a comment about how you hit like a wet noodle in warfronts, but that would be mean.

    P.S. Nobody is arguing about having to raid for BiS PvP gear being bad. We all know that already.
    Last edited by Snap; 12-18-2014 at 03:20 AM.
    Cheesecakesandwich - Mage 70 | Wrecking - Warrior 70
    Italiansausage - Cleric 70 | Snaplemouton - Rogue 67
    Primalsandwich - Primalist 70
    I'm a grand connoisseur of the most delicate dish known as the poutine.

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