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Thread: PVP Team Matching Broken?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xamaron View Post
    Really dont bother arguing with kronos he will just be contrary to everything you say even the logical points you make, some people are here on the forums just to get their daily power kick because they are so powerless in life.

    The biggest problem ive seen is premades, this has been an issue for a long time now. Premades entering an intented pug pvp environment. The only difference is now that some of these premades you see are decked out in full raid epics leading to a roflstomp team.

    Also all it takes it a few bad players/ afkers in your team to result in a loss, its the nature of pug warfronts and its just exarcebated now by pvers who afk in warfronts simply to get their marks for pve.
    Since premades are higher spending customers and they are willing to spend because they get to roflstomp you, perhaps a middle ground can be sought. One way is to limit premades to 50% of any side in a warfront; esp at the start. That way, solo pugs dont get your face stomped thru the ground as often and as painfully.

    Maybe Trion can implement a queue system where by when the WF premade exceeds this 50% limit when queue pops, it can prompt the premade leader whether to ignore the queue-pop and continue waiting for their full premade game (big maps like battle of scion) or allow the system to randomly split the group into 2.
    Last edited by Observers; 12-19-2014 at 06:04 AM.

  2. #32
    Champion of Telara
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    Just make every person in a PM count for 1.5 to 2 people on their team:

    2 = 3
    3 = 5
    4 = 7
    5 = 10

    That way a WF with a full 5 man PM will be capped at 15 people total.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heydude View Post
    After suffering 14 losses in a row the other day and 7 yesterday and 5 today I have come to the conclusion that PVP team matchmaking is broken. Now I realize this isn't new news to many of you and I also understand TRION has tried to make it better a few patches ago, but the truth is it's still broke.

    So until the day TRION can actually fix this problem I suggest a indirect fix, one that would at least help people get their weeklies done and maybe save someone from going bald in the process. My suggestion would be something to the effect of maybe lets say, three losses = a win on your weekly. You know, lose three matches and still get a win credit for a match on your weekly.

    What say you people of RIFT. Is this a good or bad idea?
    Heydude,
    I don't need to speak for Kronos, he does just fine..
    However, your join date is what 3 weeks old, and he has over a million kills..
    Show a little respect...

  4. #34
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    There's probably not a good answer to solve this, although weighting members of a WF based on be premade is a potentially good idea. The only downside I can see is it would discourage newer PVP groups from forming, since they'd be penalized only for wanting to play together.

    I'd hate to see premades taken to their own queue though and a solo only PvP queue added. I solo pug my WFs, and some nights it feels I probably should just roll over and show my belly when I see them coming down, organized, half with the same guild tags.

    I've never been a PvP'er and only started PvP about three months ago when I decided I'd do a Warfront because I had an event quest and wanted the chest that was awarded and the only thing missing was this quest to use a wand on players in a Warfront.

    Since then I've been PVP'ing more than PvE'ing and I'm really enjoying it.

    My strategy has been to watch what they are doing. I've learned certain strategies that I didn't know before. Recon potions are fantastic. Kills don't matter if you're not holding runes. Watching for particular cast graphics and knowing what a particular combination of classes will do together they can't do apart. See how much better it works when four or five players protect the flag / rune runner as he goes to place it, and protect and clear him so he isn't interrupted when trying to plant it. Using better timing on debilitates. AoE casting to expose stealth. Just try and end run them to steal a rune back. Remember that and keep your own runes protected. They don't cap and run, they cap and hold, and know how to call for help and have their forces attack a point en masse to cap it and keep it.

    I was in a PUG last night and someone was crying about how badly we were losing, I suggested that he watch and learn from what they were doing, and use the loss as a chance to see how things should be done. His response was "What's to learn? They're better than us!!!" I honestly had nothing to say to that.

    PUGs will never be perfect, but a win is a win, and it is earned, whether by a group of guild mates playing together, or by a group of strangers who work together. The current matchmaking algorithm isn't perfect, but I'm nervous about Trion tinkering with things.

  5. #35
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    Just make every person in a PM count for 1.5 to 2 people on their team:

    2 = 3
    3 = 5
    4 = 7
    5 = 10

    That way a WF with a full 5 man PM will be capped at 15 people total.
    at least give credit to the originator when you steal other peoples suggestions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    I'd suggest making premade players "fill" more player slots, giving pug teams a numerical advantage.

    eg: each player in a
    duo = 1.5 pug players, so together they "fill" 3 player slots
    trio = 1.6 pug players, so together they fill 5 player slots
    4man = 1.75 pug players, so together they fill 7 player slots
    5man = 2 pug players, so together they fill 10 player slots
    Last edited by Kronos v; 12-19-2014 at 01:22 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  6. #36
    Rift Master The Ic0N's Avatar
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    I got a million pvp kills once..... my first year playing before CQ was announced
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  7. #37
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    Perhaps randomly splitting the premade raid group is not a good idea.

    If the raid split is predetermined, say by party, perhaps it would be workable? Even within guilds there should be cliques. And if they get to fight each other on opposing sides, its still playing together right? Even professional soccer players play against themselves when training.
    Last edited by Observers; 12-19-2014 at 03:01 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xamaron View Post
    The biggest problem ive seen is premades, this has been an issue for a long time now. Premades entering an intented pug pvp environment. The only difference is now that some of these premades you see are decked out in full raid epics leading to a roflstomp team.
    Errr since when has it ever been stated that warfronts are an intended PuG PvP environment?

    Groups have always been able to join warfronts, so I'm not sure why you think they were created solely for PuGing.

    As someone who queued into warfronts solo 99.9% of the time I played Rift, I've never had these Premade issues others appear to experience. Sure I've had my share of being stomped by a PM, but I've also managed to beat a fair few PMs with PuGs made up of good PvP solo queuers.

    And to keep this post on-topic, I do think awarding a win for any number of losses is a bad idea. One of the main reasons that PvP has such crappy gear is because of the perception that someone can lose their way to the top.

    Trion should make it so after you respawn you have 10 seconds to leave the respawn area or stop getting favour/prestige/XP. After that, if you want to receive rewards, you must leave the respawn area, and wait 30 seconds before receiving rewards again. In fact any time a player can't be killed, they should have 10 seconds to leave that safe zone or stop getting anything. A player should only receive PvP loot/currency/XP if they can be killed by another player. Hanging out in a safe zone, where there is no chance to kill that player should always award that player nothing whatsoever.

  9. #39
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    Heydude.... I laugh at this. You claim you pull your weight and do EVERYTHING to win matches but yet say its your team bringing you down. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen ONE player join a losing team and that team come back and win. I am not saying that one person is always the deciding factor, but I have never seen 14 losses back to back before so the common denominator is you. Try to see if you are just farming kills and dmg, or if you are actually trying to guide the team in chat to win, or call things out before they happen to help to speed up the process to get the help needed when it is needed. Most veteran players that have been here for years are winning because we tend to be more vocal. The best geared/skilled player doesn't matter with a win near as much as a very vocal leader and people who respect him/her enough to listen and follow directions. I am sure you will now proceed to yell "You don't know me" and "How dare you say this" and what ever else to make you feel better about it, but it's simple. Be Vocal and if they don't listen to you it is because you have not made your mark yet to be respected enough to get them to.

  10. #40
    krd
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    im gonna be swift cause this is old news bul****...

    1. you people compare pve with pvp again... in pve you can fully choose your premade... in pvp you cant do ****... even if you join with 5 people you wont do ****.... and if you once did.. well that happens too but its rare...

    2. THERES NO matchmaking system at all.. im rank 96 and i still have rank 10 ***** in my team...

    3..Dude! you just ask for trion to lose money..... this is exactly how its planned ... to delay your progress and make you play more and spend more....EVERYTHING in this game is planned with greed..GREED yes... all they need is your money


    4. dont w8 for challenging pvp game cause you wont get any in rift.. Thats why pvp is the only thing rift didnt copy from WOW... dont you wonder why????

    5. rift= GREED no fair play.. only money = tardplay..

  11. #41
    swo
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    Quote Originally Posted by kronos v View Post

    perhaps this is more like the game you want rift to become.
    lol :d <3

    Swo@Deepwood > HK <

  12. #42
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    Exclamation Premades in Warfronts Ruin the Point of Matching Up Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo1 View Post
    Now CQ is active allow premades there but stop premades in warfronts. Simples.
    THIS IS KEY. The reason why I can't finish any of my weeklies is because my guild isn't a PVP centered guild, we're a raiding centered guild. In other words, very few of us try to PVP so there is no such thing as queueing together. I've gotten into so many awful warfronts because of premades. Make warfronts only queueable by one person, like a single-player chronicle. This would fix so many issues AND give players an actual chance to win sometimes.

    It has nothing to do with a player's skill, Kronos V. It's just the fact that there are too many premades which screw everything up.
    ~Krebony@Laethys

  13. #43
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krd View Post
    2. THERES NO matchmaking system at all.. im rank 96 and i still have rank 10 ***** in my team...
    you, have, without even realising it, identified the core problem with the current matchmaking system.
    and no, its not that there is no matchmaking system... there is...

    the current system is designed to allow high ranked (ELO rank, not prestige) and low ranked (AFKers/Bads/ect) into the same teams.

    this makes the high ranks resent having to carry bads, they see their team as useless... underperforming... needing to be carried. likewise they see the enemy low ranked players as not even a decent fight.

    while the low ranks see themselves getting farmed by "raid geared PvEers/premades".
    they believe they don't even have a chance vs the high ranked enemy they face.

    even if you take the premade out of the queue, this problem will still remain. it will actually get worse, because the premade players will be discouraged from queuing as a premade, and will be in your queues as Duos and pugs. many of these players are very good and will still kick your assassin even without the help of a premade.

    premades are not the biggest problem with the queue.
    "fixing" premades wont fix the queue and you'll still have a very poor warfront experience, you'll just have one less excuse as to why you keep losing.

    P.S. before you start making suggestions for fixing this problem, try and figure out why this was allowed, and is in fact actually hard coded into the matchmaking system, is fully intended and desired by Trion.
    because there are underlying issues that also need to be addressed in any proposed replacement queue system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by impactnow View Post
    Heydude,
    I don't need to speak for Kronos, he does just fine..
    However, your join date is what 3 weeks old, and he has over a million kills..
    Show a little respect...
    Respect is earned not given. When someone makes false accusations against someone they don't know they tend to lose respect. I never fired back at Kronos for anything he/she said as far as answering my question to my original post but for remarks made against me on how I play when he/she couldn't possible know that information.

    If your trying to use my forum name to factor my start date you have failed at getting yourself accurate information because forum names don't reflect in-game names.
    I have actually been playing this game since before it went free to play.

    You will notice when Kronos answered my original question and gave reasons to why he/she didn't agree to it I actually agreed with him/her.

    As mentioned before thanks to the people who gave honest answers to my original post without trying to troll. To the people who tried to troll, you give the perfect example of why I don't and I'm sure many others usually don't post in the forums, but mostly just lurk and read.

  15. #45
    Ascendant Rheven's Avatar
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    I am seeing a lotta AFKs which irritates me no end. But then again I am mostly winning so there's that. It's no secret I don't like PreMades. Well at least in Q with PuGs. All I ever really ask is that people understand the objectives and try to accomplish them with some kills along the way.

    As for CQ? Well I have played it a little and the matches are going really fast. I guess this is TRIONs new PvP mine for gear, for the "cool" kids like Daglar suggested.

    I win and win and win and get 1.5 plat average from those chests along with an occasional artifact and the same minion for several times now. This is the new PvP gear progression? Go figure. There is a lot broken with PvP right now but "balance" is certainly one of the important ones.
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