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Thread: Ascended Strategies: New PvP Fighting Style

  1. #1
    Rift Master Shedelin's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ascended Strategies: New PvP Fighting Style

    Ok, so, I would generally call this a tactica, but the word has an unfortunate negative connotation and upsets some people, so I shall instead call it Ascended Strategies until I can roll out a non-experimental tactica. Let's begin!

    Strategy #1: Fighting War with Peace

    At first glance, this may drive some people to label me insane, Person X, or worse. But wait.

    This strategy is all about the importance of who attacked first. I've come to the following conclusion: That those who fire first have a major disadvantage. Just look at my data:

    In 10 RIFT duels between people of even level, 8 out of 10 who attacked first ended up losing.

    In 120 Unreal Tournament 2004 (UT2004) 1-on-1 duels, those who fired the first shot were 3 times more likely to lose the frag.

    In 20 UT2004 matches of 5 players, the person who scored first blood had a 60% chance of finishing in 4th and 5th. The rest of the time the person who scored first blood won the match. Basically...if you score first blood, you're either finishing last or first, no in-betweens.

    In 40 PvP matches, 75% of teams who jumped out to an early lead lost the match. 3 of those teams led by 100 points initially and lost by more than 100 after the smoke cleared.

    The conclusion: Don't attack unless you are attacked upon. This data should back me up.

    Strategy #2: Offense and Defense

    Offense and Defense works best in a map like Codex. The Offense should be smaller. Lets use Codex while I describe how each works:

    Offense: The job of the offense is to kill opposing players and capture the main objective, in this case, the Dex.

    Defense: The job of defense is to take other smaller objectives and defend those objectives from harm. In this case, Scope, Statue, and Vault. As they say, "Focus on the details, and the big things (like winning) takes care of itself.

    Thus concludes today's episode of Ascended Strategies.

    Comments, questions, concerns, insults?
    Last edited by Shedelin; 12-02-2014 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Game Clarification

  2. #2
    Rift Master Sezex's Avatar
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    Get heal spec> pick up runes\fang\numbers>heal urself>be good at pvp

    the fail is real

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    Rift Master Shedelin's Avatar
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    Hey, @Sezex, my alt, Fuminggate, has done this multiple times. And no, I don't feel guilty about it.

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    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Ascended Strategies: New PvP Fighting Style-memecenter_1417679108395_765.jpg
    /chars
    Last edited by Snap; 12-03-2014 at 11:46 PM.
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    Plane Touched Warchopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedelin View Post
    Hey, @Sezex, my alt, Fuminggate, has done this multiple times. And no, I don't feel guilty about it.
    So you admit you can run around pretty much unkillable knowing healers are over tweaked and you like it? So let me guess you are the person that looks up GodMode / Unlimited Ammo cheats on your single player games as soon as the keybinds are made?
    Last edited by Warchopp; 12-04-2014 at 02:29 AM.
    Homiejackson@Seastone 65 Sin

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    Plane Walker Kartia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warchopp View Post
    So you admit you can run around pretty much unkillable knowing healers are over tweaked and you like it? So let me guess you are the person that looks up GodMode / Unlimited Ammo cheats on your single player games as soon as the keybinds are made?
    You should stop posting already. There's no "unkillable" healers, just incompetent dps.
    Do you know how assist works at all?

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    Plane Touched Warchopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartia View Post
    You should stop posting already. There's no "unkillable" healers, just incompetent dps.
    Do you know how assist works at all?
    I can get a Healer to 15% and someone from across the map will heal them back up. When I say unkillable healers I am speaking primarily to to many healers, 1 cannot be isolated without the others intervening.

    Then add Premades farming Randoms we have PVP of Today!
    Homiejackson@Seastone 65 Sin

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    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warchopp View Post
    I can get a Healer to 15% and someone from across the map will heal them back up. When I say unkillable healers I am speaking primarily to to many healers, 1 cannot be isolated without the others intervening.

    Then add Premades farming Randoms we have PVP of Today!
    Not able to kill a healer in 1v1?

    Then it's working as intended.
    Stop acting so self-entitled thinking you should be able to kill an healer by yourself.

    1 healer
    Have 2 DPS focus fire, no healer can survive 2 good DPS for long.

    2 healers
    1. Short duration CC
    2. Wait for the Break Free CC immunity to go off.
    3. Long duration CC
    4. Focus fire with another DPS on the other healer.
    5. Profit.

    3+ healers
    Have 3+ DPS focus fire, no amount of healing can survive 3+ good DPS burst.

    Considering as a WARLOCK I can burst almost 40% of someone health in a global, there is no reason why you can't do it with most DPS souls.
    3 DPS can kill someone through any heals in a single global when they all burst at the same time.
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  9. #9
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Shedelin, your strategy ideas are dangerous in that some new player might be mistaken in taking them seriously and actually think they accurately reflect PvP in Rift.

    if you wish to write useful guides, you can start by addressing the basics of pvp: timing bursts/CC, nameplates and CC immunities, recon vials and map awareness, how to tell a tank from a healer from a support from a dps, the common specs for each class, their strengths and weaknesses...

    you can also focus on individual warfront maps, paying particular attention to map mechanics: the stone spawn pattern in whitefall, and why its never a bad idea to steal enemy stones even if you fail, why fighting at the flag nearest your spawn in codex is always a terrible idea and how it leads to losing, the difference in flag points on domination maps and why assassins are so useful there (and when not to unstealth/use a CC as an assassin at a flag).

    lastly, read this book (your school library should have it) before you post any more "strategies"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    if you wish to write useful guides, you can start by addressing the basics of pvp: timing bursts/CC, nameplates and CC immunities, recon vials and map awareness, how to tell a tank from a healer from a support from a dps, the common specs for each class, their strengths and weaknesses...
    If such a comprehensive thing existed on these forums I'd have read it well over a year ago when I first realised that PvE wasn't for me and playing around with stuff in PvP was far more enjoyable. I personally dislike video guides: it's great if you have the time and inclination to go through things and great for demonstrating stuff, but it takes ages to figure out some things actually work (watching people play WFs doesn't necessarily clearly tell you how they are scored etc), and you can't skim-watch videos.

    Naturally I can't and won't try to speak for others here but I've tried to point out before how hostile this entire section is towards people who don't know any better than what they are doing and get flamed for it when they post questions/complaints here. Though the active forum members only reflect a tiny proportion of the PvPing playerbase, there are a lot more lurkers than posters.

    It's always struck me that there's a huge absence of quality PvP guides on here, or at least in comparison to the PvE ones whether it's about general pointers or specific builds. Very few of those suggest adaptations to make to builds for a PvP environment, and even less suggest differences in playstyle.

    I'd happily contribute what I can but compared to most of the folks here I'm almost certainly a beginner when it comes to actual suggestions on how to do things.

  11. #11
    Rift Master Shedelin's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Alright, first off, message to Kronos V...I have ordered the book, should get here by Christmas. I have about 2 weeks off for a cruise, so I should finish the book by then.

    Now, here is some general strategies I found. Note: both of them involve Whitefall.

    Document #F59DY6
    Code: Whitefall Offense
    Agent: Shedelin
    Written at: Central Indiana at 6:47 pm local time

    Strategy 1: Back and Forward

    Someone wise once said, "There is no way out except forward, my friends." In a heated firefight, charging can mean the difference between life and death. But there is a problem. Most of the time charging headlong at your enemies is often ill-advised. And for good reason. As the Lich King once said in prep for the Battle for the Scarlet Enclave, "You must know what it is you seek to destroy...it is what separates a death knight from a mindless ghoul." Translating to Rift terms "You must know what it is you seek to destroy before you destroy it...it is what separates a good PvPer from an untrained dog."

    The most common way in the real world to distract is to throw a pie in someone's face and then do what you need to do to your target. That is the classic way to blindside someone and move forward. But, as we don't have pies, this is the modified version, step by step...

    Step 1: Fight in Whitefall.
    Step 2: Rogues back out of combat (assuming you're fighting a PUG), and switch to assassins.
    Step 3: Assassins in stealth, they slip behind lines and BOOM! Hit the opposing team.
    Step 4: While distracted, your team charges in. Now more melee.
    Step 5: Enemy is killed.
    Step 6: Take stone and run back to base.
    Step 7: Rinse and repeat.

    Strategy 2: Split Spare

    Split spare. In the bowling world, a split spare is when you get a spare when the pins are such a distance away it is impossible to get in one throw. The classic split spare is the Pin #4 and Pin #10, and the other classic one is pin #6 and pin #7, both of which I have done on Wii Sports (and yes, it took 5 tries before I could do it. Now only if I could do it at an actual bowling alley.)

    However, in the RIFT world, a split spare is when you charge in the middle and try to split the opposing team so that half of the opponents are beating your left side, and the other opponents are beating on your right side.

    If you do this correctly, you should be able to open a path so that while people like physicians and tanks and others focus on each slice of bread, your marksmen bust through the hole with Sprint and charge headlong at the enemy stones.

    How do you successfully do the Split Spare? Simple...

    Step 1: Start with your rogues pulling out of combat and switching to marksman.
    Step 2: Organize. In preparation, half of your remaining team is positioned on the right and the other half is positioned on the left.
    Step 3: Execute. When ready, both sides push them aside like wiper blades, using CC like Mass Repulsion.
    Step 4: When both sides have swept, someone will need to alert the marksman, who burst through the open hole to the enemy base using Sprint.
    Step 5: Grab stones, switch to Physician, and stroll back to base.
    Step 6: Rinse and repeat.

    There, I have posted some new strategies. Next fine I'll be implementing defensive strategies.

    Comments, questions, concerns, insults?
    Last edited by Shedelin; 12-10-2014 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Info Rewrite

  12. #12
    Ascendant Snap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    lastly, read this book (your school library should have it) before you post any more "strategies"
    One of the best book one can read.

    The Art of War is a collection of common sense and logic.
    Everything in it is simple stuff, but it's often the simple things that we forget first.
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  13. #13
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warchopp View Post
    So you admit you can run around pretty much unkillable knowing healers are over tweaked and you like it? So let me guess you are the person that looks up GodMode / Unlimited Ammo cheats on your single player games as soon as the keybinds are made?
    /god
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    Bring it on Stroggos.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  14. #14
    Rift Master Shedelin's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Alright, alright, so I posted some offensive strategies for Whitefall Steppes.

    While I know everyone would appreciate some tactics for A Very Fae Yule Whitefall, especially those who came to the game from Nightmare Tide, I sadly have not gone in there yet. So in its stead, I will post some defensive strategies. One of them is a counter to the Split Spare strategy.

    Document # FH5T7A
    Code: Whitefall Defense
    Agent: Shedelin
    Written at: Central Indiana at 12:57 p.m. local time

    Strategy 1: Bow and Cup

    This strategy was used at the Battle for Cannae during the Second Punic War, in which a Carthagian general, Hannibal, managed to box in the Romans and destroy the Roman army. The Roman army, which figures at 60,000 men, was destroyed along with their leader, Varro. Hannibal lost only 6,000 men, despite having 3x less troops than the Romans. To give the Romans credit, though, Hannibal was a very tactically skilled person.

    Sadly, we don't have 60,000 on 20,000 here on Rift, but it is still possible to do the bow and cup with 15 men versus 15 men. Here's how...

    Step 1: To start with, you will need to send some of your superb fighters, like assassins, to sneak around to the back. Don't worry about the enemy noticing, because they are pugs.

    Step 2: Meanwhile, your main block needs to start bending and bending like a bow. Let them push you back. Note that it is perfectly fine for them to use Crowd Control spells and abilities, in fact, they help speed up the strategy.

    Step 3: The enemy are pushing through and they have no idea its part of the plan.

    Step 4: Once the sins get round and you have assumed the shape of a bow with string, someone will need to signal the team and then they close in on the opponents, boxing them in. Trapped, the assassins should have no trouble defeating the opposing side.

    Step 5: Once the team is boxed in, someone will need to grab the stone and bring it back to base.

    Step 6: Score: You guys 1, Enemy 0. Rinse and repeat.

    Note that this works good for a physician or tank heavy team.

    Strategy 2: Split Spare Counter

    I've already shared my split spare strategy, now it's time to introduce the counter.

    So you may be wondering how do you counter it? Simple...there are a couple marksmen who drew back. Usually if you are observant and not beating on physicians, you might notice that 2 marksmen are missing. In that case, you need to be prepared for a Split Spare.

    So how does it work? As soon as you notice it, call for the Counter.

    Step 1: Begin by people with knockbacks positioning themselves at the side.

    Step 2: Execute. Knockbacks move in and push them to the center. Then start a sweep inward. Note that you need to leave about 2 people out of the fighting.

    Step 3: Your opponents are basically trapped in the center.

    Step 4: Now that you have boxed them in, send the 2 people you left out of the fighting into opposing territory to find the marksmen they have pulled out of combat. Check cover as well.

    Step 5: Send the two QUICKLY! If you are not quick, they may be able to push you back with their own CC, allowing them to continue their strategy, just not the way they wanted to start.

    Step 6: The marksmen now are playing a somewhat lethal game of cat and mouse, with them being the mouse and your two teammates being the cat.

    Step 7: As soon as the marksmen appear, return to a long line and beat on those marksmen.

    Step 8: With the threat neutralized, you can use the two people you used to chase the marksmen to grab stones. While they will most likely fail, it will break the lines and can get you the stone at the rift.

    There is my two defensive strategies. Next time I will present two defensive strategies for Regular Black Garden.

    Comments, questions, concerns, insults?

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara
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    If you can kill healers you need to reroll to Inq or Pyro and if you still wont be able to kill them you have to go back to scripted pve fights, because PvP is apparently too complex for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

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