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Thread: Pyros, gear problems, and getting pvp back

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Osirian's Avatar
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    Default Pyros, gear problems, and getting pvp back

    First off I want to make it clear that pyro isn't op in the sense that it can kill anyone on a 1v1. But, it isn't in par with other full DPS specs...that is all i need to say about that.

    As far as the posts about rogues being op...1 word, DEBUFF. I rarely see someone use debuffs properly and its actually quite funny when they cry on the forums. Once we lose those buffs we are wheelchair status. Slip away and stealth isnt about just waiting to kill the lowest HP. It gives us a buff that is less than other's passive armor/sheild abilities. Lastly, I have yet to come across someone on the forums complaining about rogues that have played a rogue that I recognize...Meaning they aren't good and just trying to troll. Also paragon, inq, and dom should kill a sin if played half decently.

    Healing isn't on par with DPS. You can take the Best dps and have them 1v1 mediocre healers and it will be a stale or take a very long time to kill. it should be the opposite and in no game have I ever seen heals top dps in almost every single match.

    Looking at a larger perspective, pvp is slowly dying. In order to get more people involved with PVP I think we should go back to WOW vanilla style. As in, no pvp stats. Make the BEST raid gear exactly equiv to the best pvp gear. Even if a pve'er that just slayed the largest dragon in the game gets the best gear in the game, I highly doubt they will be able to dominate in pvp. This way people complaining about gear can only look at themselves...

    Bring back an overall ranking system for all servers. For example top 50 are generals and can get general gear etc on a monthly or seasonal rotation. This will give an incentive to continue building up egos and gear instead of the log on before reset and knock out all the quests.

    I think this game as potential to bring back the world pvp rifts too if this was put in effect. This will also meet Daglar's perception that we should all be forced to try different aspects of the game. Well if my pvp gear allowed me to pve, I would be more likely to try it when invited.

    Lastly, this game will die out whether we like it or not if something doesn't change. There will always be the loyal ones but everyone else will move on. The first to go is usually the pvpers because we are impatient when it comes to fixing something simple.
    Last edited by Osirian; 08-10-2014 at 10:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple ItzCrooK2UxD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    Healing isn't on par with DPS. You can take the Best dps and have them 1v1 mediocre healers and it will be a stale or take a very long time to kill. it should be the opposite and in no game have I ever seen heals top dps in almost every single match.
    No DPS should be able to 1v1 a healer and expect to kill them. Healers have gimp attacks, their ability to heal is their primary usefulness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    Looking at a larger perspective, pvp is slowly dying. In order to get more people involved with PVP I think we should go back to WOW vanilla style. As in, no pvp stats. Make the BEST raid gear exactly equiv to the best pvp gear.
    No, just no. Top end PvP gear will never equal top end raid gear, and top end raid gear should never equal top end PvP gear. If you want top end gear for PvP you have to grind prestige. The two worlds are not the same and should require the grinding of two sets of gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    Bring back an overall ranking system for all servers. For example top 50 are generals and can get general gear etc on a monthly or seasonal rotation. This will give an incentive to continue building up egos and gear instead of the log on before reset and knock out all the quests.
    There is already incentive for continuing to PvP after weeklies/dailies are done. More prestige and more favor. I dare say most people who enjoy PvPing continue to do so even after Weeklies/Dailies have been completed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    I think this game as potential to bring back the world pvp rifts too if this was put in effect. This will also meet Daglar's perception that we should all be forced to try different aspects of the game. Well if my pvp gear allowed me to pve, I would be more likely to try it when invited.
    I used to agree about PvP gear being able to be used for PvE, until I took the time to actually get PvE gear. 400+ hit is SUPER easy to get already, between crafted gear, and Temporal Core drops from CQ. In fact its so easy to get that I managed to complete my first TDQ run BEFORE even zoning into an expert. The only thing that stops PvPers from PvEing is the desire to do so IMO.
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    Rift Chaser Osirian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItzCrooK2UxD View Post
    No DPS should be able to 1v1 a healer and expect to kill them. Healers have gimp attacks, their ability to heal is their primary usefulness.



    No, just no. Top end PvP gear will never equal top end raid gear, and top end raid gear should never equal top end PvP gear. If you want top end gear for PvP you have to grind prestige. The two worlds are not the same and should require the grinding of two sets of gear.



    There is already incentive for continuing to PvP after weeklies/dailies are done. More prestige and more favor. I dare say most people who enjoy PvPing continue to do so even after Weeklies/Dailies have been completed.



    I used to agree about PvP gear being able to be used for PvE, until I took the time to actually get PvE gear. 400+ hit is SUPER easy to get already, between crafted gear, and Temporal Core drops from CQ. In fact its so easy to get that I managed to complete my first TDQ run BEFORE even zoning into an expert. The only thing that stops PvPers from PvEing is the desire to do so IMO.
    I am maxed on prestige, favor, and marks except wl marks. Please continue to inform me on my incentive.
    And I would love for more people to join even if they are pvers... Old vanilla was amazing and I hate how we seperate the pvp and pve gear but this game revolves around the pve apparently when it comes to testing. I don't think you have thought this through. The idea is to bring more people to pvp or pve. I hate pve but I would love to see the pve'ers qqing about gear to be able to sue their gear efficiently without constantly hearing the whining.

    I already see people stretching egos when one has over 1k planar attunement and the other only has about 100. That is a GIANT gap.
    Last edited by Osirian; 08-10-2014 at 11:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    Lastly, this game will die out
    This is about the only thing I saw that made complete sense, but it came so far after the unfair pyro dmg and immortal mediocre healers that I almost missed it.

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    Once we lose those buffs we are wheelchair status.
    You realise that Pyro has a single buff that will go off on the first purge and which:

    - Increases damage by 5%
    - Pyromancer’s Blessing – While Pyromancer's Armor is active, damaging Fire spells have a 20% chance to reset the cooldown on Cinder Burst, allow it to be cast instantly and reduce its mana cost by 50%.
    - Pyromancer’s Vengeance - While Pyromancer's Armor is active, casting Fireball generates a stack of Pyromancer's Vengeance on you, increasing the chance for Pyromancer's Blessing to affect Cinder Burst by 1/2% per stack. Max 5 stacks. Lasts 10 seconds.
    - Pyromancer’s Fury - While Pyromancer's Armor is active, your damaging Fire abilities, excluding Fireball, apply a stack of Pyromancer's Fury to you. Fireball will consume a stack of Pyromancer's Fury to reduce its cast time by 0.3/0.4/0.5s and increase its damage by 10/20/30%. Max 5 stacks.

    1 MM/Inq purge, and all of this is gone.

    Poor Rogues! You have it so hard, being wrecked by purges.

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    Rift Disciple digital shaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    1 MM/Inq purge, and all of this is gone.
    Or cabalist. or beastmaster. or archon. or necro. or stormcaller. or...

  7. #7
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digital shaman View Post
    Or cabalist. or beastmaster. or archon. or necro. or stormcaller. or...
    Well, those all only purge 1 buff, so technically that's two purges. Most people will have Aqueous Blessing. But yeah, Pyro is incredibly purge-vulnerable is the point.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Godmoney's Avatar
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    pyro is not going to beat a rogue or warrior 1vs1. it sure is not going to beat a defiler or inq. just make sure your equally geared and give a go.
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    Rift Disciple ItzCrooK2UxD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    I am maxed on prestige, favor, and marks except wl marks. Please continue to inform me on my incentive.
    And I would love for more people to join even if they are pvers... Old vanilla was amazing and I hate how we seperate the pvp and pve gear but this game revolves around the pve apparently when it comes to testing. I don't think you have thought this through. The idea is to bring more people to pvp or pve. I hate pve but I would love to see the pve'ers qqing about gear to be able to sue their gear efficiently without constantly hearing the whining.

    I already see people stretching egos when one has over 1k planar attunement and the other only has about 100. That is a GIANT gap.
    PvEers get bolstered already. Why should T3 raiders be bolstered to Relic Myrmidon? I just recently leveled a warrior to 60 and even as a bolstered fresh 60 I was VERY competitive. Skilled players will be skilled players regardless of their gear level, and bolstering a T3 raider to relic myrmidon is a slap in the face to those who grinded it out. If it worked both ways I could find it more agreeable but the reason Rifts PvP is dying is because the content is becoming stale. PvP oriented games (shooters namely) keep things fresh by introducing new map packs on a regular basis. If Trion took notes and followed this model WFs and PvP wouldn't be nearly as stale as it is.

    If you are maxed out then PvP should be its own reward...kill players because thats what you enjoy.
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  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Osirian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItzCrooK2UxD View Post
    PvEers get bolstered already. Why should T3 raiders be bolstered to Relic Myrmidon? I just recently leveled a warrior to 60 and even as a bolstered fresh 60 I was VERY competitive. Skilled players will be skilled players regardless of their gear level, and bolstering a T3 raider to relic myrmidon is a slap in the face to those who grinded it out. If it worked both ways I could find it more agreeable but the reason Rifts PvP is dying is because the content is becoming stale. PvP oriented games (shooters namely) keep things fresh by introducing new map packs on a regular basis. If Trion took notes and followed this model WFs and PvP wouldn't be nearly as stale as it is.

    If you are maxed out then PvP should be its own reward...kill players because thats what you enjoy.
    I do enjoy it but I mean a good pvper doesn't care about others getting a boost to make it more even. I could really care less...I just want more people to fight. I think making the gear all universal will only promote people to do more. I understand where you are coming from and I hate that I made that grind. However, I loved the Wow vanilla setup and I think the marshal ranks and stuff would be awesome to have in this game. Limited amount of people per rank and competition to hold it.

  11. #11
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    pyro burst is more than enough to kill any healer, 30-35k in 3-4 seconds it seems

    dunno why people think it somehow isn't possible because it's a mage or ranged dps, their burst is on par with shaman/para at the moment and i have no problem gibbing healers.
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    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    You realise that Pyro has a single buff that will go off on the first purge and which:

    - Increases damage by 5%
    - Pyromancer’s Blessing – While Pyromancer's Armor is active, damaging Fire spells have a 20% chance to reset the cooldown on Cinder Burst, allow it to be cast instantly and reduce its mana cost by 50%.
    - Pyromancer’s Vengeance - While Pyromancer's Armor is active, casting Fireball generates a stack of Pyromancer's Vengeance on you, increasing the chance for Pyromancer's Blessing to affect Cinder Burst by 1/2% per stack. Max 5 stacks. Lasts 10 seconds.
    - Pyromancer’s Fury - While Pyromancer's Armor is active, your damaging Fire abilities, excluding Fireball, apply a stack of Pyromancer's Fury to you. Fireball will consume a stack of Pyromancer's Fury to reduce its cast time by 0.3/0.4/0.5s and increase its damage by 10/20/30%. Max 5 stacks.

    1 MM/Inq purge, and all of this is gone.

    Poor Rogues! You have it so hard, being wrecked by purges.
    I agree BUT I also see an issue. I remember back in the day before they needed heals into the ground. Myself, and others, said "purge...debuffs...interrupt...or drain...translation VKs eat healers for lunch.

    Some QQ said that they should not have to worry about that. Other QQ said that purges and CC were too prevelant. They both won. Heals got needed and utility got gutted. Now heals and dps are a little better balanced than they were for a time (I still think there is something " off" with Cloro survivability...they need a buff) but the point is historically in this game utility (meaning purges and CC) have been steadily made less and less a factor. So it just seems off to raise an argument the devs stuck a fork in back around 1.4-1.5.

    Like I said in principal I agree with you but the game up till now seems to have disagreed with us.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    pyro burst is more than enough to kill any healer, 30-35k in 3-4 seconds it seems

    dunno why people think it somehow isn't possible because it's a mage or ranged dps, their burst is on par with shaman/para at the moment and i have no problem gibbing healers.
    This is pretty much true...especially since a healer is in a damned if they do damned if they don't situation when it comes to curing and countdown. With the right rotation then"killing blow" can be the healer curing himself.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple ItzCrooK2UxD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osirian View Post
    I do enjoy it but I mean a good pvper doesn't care about others getting a boost to make it more even. I could really care less...I just want more people to fight. I think making the gear all universal will only promote people to do more. I understand where you are coming from and I hate that I made that grind. However, I loved the Wow vanilla setup and I think the marshal ranks and stuff would be awesome to have in this game. Limited amount of people per rank and competition to hold it.
    Well bolstering is a boost, but to say that a dedicated PvEer should be boosted to the same status as a dedicated PvPer in a WF or CQ is absurd. Why should a T3 raider come into a WF and be boosted higher than a dedicated PvPer with sh*t RNG luck?

    My understanding is "universal gear" has been tried in the past and it was a problem because raiders had to PvP to get BiS gear and vice versa. The only problem I see with gear with regards to PvP is its highly dependent on RNG luck.

    That said, anyone who desires to PvP can become geared relatively fast. My warrior hit level 60 two weeks ago, and has the entire left side in WL gear and one of the rings upgraded too, just waiting on favor to upgrade the other ring. There is absolutely no reason to bolster PvEers who wish to PvP any higher than it is once you consider the speed at which you can earn gear in PvP, which is much faster than the PvE path they have already grinded.
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