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Thread: The new Pyro

  1. #61
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mausea View Post
    So don't say, mages are op now... they should be! Thats intended by their calling!
    why was i quoted on this? lol

  2. #62
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    After playing pyro a lot, and having my opinion sway back and forth, I'd say it needs about a flat 10% dmg nerf in pvp. Also, it needs to lose its shields to become even more tender. The level of dmg it puts out is only justifiable if its extremely fragile.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    After playing pyro a lot, and having my opinion sway back and forth, I'd say it needs about a flat 10% dmg nerf in pvp. Also, it needs to lose its shields to become even more tender. The level of dmg it puts out is only justifiable if its extremely fragile.
    It already has some of the lowest HP values and defenses out of all but other mage DPS when it comes to "Get looked at and go boom". You can't make something more squishy when looking at it sideways causes it to explode already.

    Also, interrupts, purges, and cleanses will all lower the damage on Pyro. I don't think people have considered how much purging Pyro Armor will absolutely destroy its output. Fusillade takes a 30% hit from that alone due to lost fury.
    Last edited by evantide; 08-08-2014 at 10:18 AM.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    After playing pyro a lot, and having my opinion sway back and forth, I'd say it needs about a flat 10% dmg nerf in pvp. Also, it needs to lose its shields to become even more tender. The level of dmg it puts out is only justifiable if its extremely fragile.
    I'd agree in a perfect world where every pug healer isn't awful. Taking away what little self survivability pyro has would be a mistake.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeymoon View Post
    I'd agree in a perfect world where every pug healer isn't awful. Taking away what little self survivability pyro has would be a mistake.
    agreed a good melee is still going to destroy pyro. i think its fine right now, maybe a small nerf to some damage abilities but i want to play it more/play against it more before i jump to any conclusions.

  6. #66
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    Also, interrupts, purges, and cleanses will all lower the damage on Pyro. I don't think people have considered how much purging Pyro Armor will absolutely destroy its output. Fusillade takes a 30% hit from that alone due to lost fury.
    This is the real issue right now. People just haven't wised up to how vulnerable Pyro is to multiple counters. It's an immobile caster spec so LOSing and interrupting work wonders. Unless you're spec'd Archon (which means you're sacrificing survivability), Pyro armour goes off in 1 Inq/MM purge. Cleansing Countdown and Accelerant is a major loss to its damage output. Not to mention a fully geared Pyro has 28-30k HP, basically the lowest of any spec used in PvP by any calling.

    Its damage is very high, there's no denying that, but this is hardly a Warlord or Paragon scenario.

  7. #67
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    This is the real issue right now. People just haven't wised up to how vulnerable Pyro is to multiple counters. It's an immobile caster spec so LOSing and interrupting work wonders. Unless you're spec'd Archon (which means you're sacrificing survivability), Pyro armour goes off in 1 Inq/MM purge. Cleansing Countdown and Accelerant is a major loss to its damage output. Not to mention a fully geared Pyro has 28-30k HP, basically the lowest of any spec used in PvP by any calling.

    Its damage is very high, there's no denying that, but this is hardly a Warlord or Paragon scenario.
    doesnt cleansing do 60% of the damage still? 1 buff to manage is pretty easy too. also why arent you going 10 sc 5 arb for the health? easily puts you over 30k health and i still get double digit crits.

    i do agree its pretty easy to shut down the issues are when its free casting how much damage it does. i mean it does more damage than any melee soul from range. yea it has more counters but idk im still 50/50 on it.

    one thing im not 50/50 on is how much better it is than warlord. honnestly its hard to think of you as a good player or take your opinion serious about balance when you think warlord is god mode. it seems like you have very little understanding of the warrior calling and just judge specs by scoreboards. you show me a warlord parse for an entire wf that is top damage without the top two abiliites being aoe ill give you all my plat

    it also does more damage and burst that para though para is way more mobile and better 1 v 1, and better utility
    Last edited by dday; 08-08-2014 at 01:25 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    doesnt cleansing do 60% of the damage still? 1 buff to manage is pretty easy too. also why arent you going 10 sc 5 arb for the health? easily puts you over 30k health and i still get double digit crits.
    Putting additional points in Arb reduces damage quite a lot. Did some parsing on it, don't have the numbers on me but it was very noticeable. It was to the point that the added HP was simlply not worth it.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    doesnt cleansing do 60% of the damage still? 1 buff to manage is pretty easy too. also why arent you going 10 sc 5 arb for the health? easily puts you over 30k health and i still get double digit crits.

    i do agree its pretty easy to shut down the issues are when its free casting how much damage it does. i mean it does more damage than any melee soul from range. yea it has more counters but idk im still 50/50 on it.

    one thing im not 50/50 on is how much better it is than warlord. honnestly its hard to think of you as a good player or take your opinion serious about balance when you think warlord is god mode. it seems like you have very little understanding of the warrior calling and just judge specs by scoreboards. you show me a warlord parse for an entire wf that is top damage without the top two abiliites being aoe ill give you all my plat
    Because you're a turret spec, damage > HP. Going 5 points in Arb loses you 3% crit and 11% damage. Not at all worth it, because even with that little bit of extra endurance you're still going to melt in a few seconds if someone touches you. Pyro's survivability is its resilience to CC and its own CCs, if someone catches you you're dead meat.

    Yes cleansing does 60% of the damage, but the whole point of Countdown is that it... counts down. The delay on it allows you to time your travel time spells with Countdown's detonation or Searing Bolt for higher burst. Also Accelerant is +12% damage on your target and is cleansable.

    And I don't think Warlord is god-mode. I say "Warlord scenario" because of the spec's incredible versatility and lack of counters. High damage, high survivability, no susceptibility to cleanses, no susceptibility to purges, tons of gap closers and mobility, lots of utility. Basically all you can do is drain them. Para is the same deal, except you can't drain them (though you can kill them). My point is that while Pyro has very strong damage, it is below par in other ways, where specs like Warlord and Para rate "good" or better by basically every measure.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 08-08-2014 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    Putting additional points in Arb reduces damage quite a lot. Did some parsing on it, don't have the numbers on me but it was very noticeable. It was to the point that the added HP was simlply not worth it.
    1k damage loss and counting. Blade procs + SP + 6% damage boost + 5% passive damage matter a ton.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    This is the real issue right now. People just haven't wised up to how vulnerable Pyro is to multiple counters. It's an immobile caster spec so LOSing and interrupting work wonders. Unless you're spec'd Archon (which means you're sacrificing survivability), Pyro armour goes off in 1 Inq/MM purge. Cleansing Countdown and Accelerant is a major loss to its damage output. Not to mention a fully geared Pyro has 28-30k HP, basically the lowest of any spec used in PvP by any calling.

    Its damage is very high, there's no denying that, but this is hardly a Warlord or Paragon scenario.
    It have the same issue as Physician. Good players will **** on it while bad players will get owned by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

  12. #72
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    i enjoyed it

    also an assassin killed me, which means it's balanced
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  13. #73
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    Top mage in our guild is sporting 41k hp. He has best gear\runes\orbs available and with 5 points in arbiter he can still blow ppl up from 35m in couple gcd's. When warlord\sin jump him he just uses heatwave and facetanks. #Squishyglasscannon

  14. #74
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Because you're a turret spec, damage > HP. Going 5 points in Arb loses you 3% crit and 11% damage. Not at all worth it, because even with that little bit of extra endurance you're still going to melt in a few seconds if someone touches you. Pyro's survivability is its resilience to CC and its own CCs, if someone catches you you're dead meat.

    Yes cleansing does 60% of the damage, but the whole point of Countdown is that it... counts down. The delay on it allows you to time your travel time spells with Countdown's detonation or Searing Bolt for higher burst. Also Accelerant is +12% damage on your target and is cleansable.

    And I don't think Warlord is god-mode. I say "Warlord scenario" because of the spec's incredible versatility and lack of counters. High damage, high survivability, no susceptibility to cleanses, no susceptibility to purges, tons of gap closers and mobility, lots of utility. Basically all you can do is drain them. Para is the same deal, except you can't drain them (though you can kill them). My point is that while Pyro has very strong damage, it is below par in other ways, where specs like Warlord and Para rate "good" or better by basically every measure.
    warlords counter is healing or energy....it doesnt have enough burst or sustained to pressure a healer at skill cap, pretty big counter, it also loses 1 v 1 to rogue melee outside bd and even para will kill it with the debilitate fxes. pyro is just as good as para now, worse at 1 v 1 but is a range spec.

    and at the not taking arb its kinda dumb IMO. playing para with champ and temp is the same dumb play style if you ask me. yea you hit a few 100 dps higher but you are way to easy to kill hence why i only play the 12 wl version. if my tank souls had 10% endurance in first tier i would take it in every non 5 v 5 spec. especially solo que.

  15. #75
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezex View Post
    Top mage in our guild is sporting 41k hp. He has best gear\runes\orbs available and with 5 points in arbiter he can still blow ppl up from 35m in couple gcd's. When warlord\sin jump him he just uses heatwave and facetanks. #Squishyglasscannon
    he's probably playing pyrobringer which is actually a pretty strong spec. havent played it since the changes though
    Last edited by dday; 08-08-2014 at 05:46 PM.

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