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Thread: Would Seastone still be online if Rift didn't have always on stealth?

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    Champion of Telara
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    Default Would Seastone still be online if Rift didn't have always on stealth?

    I don't know what percentage of the Seastone player base is Rogues, but I'd bet it is extremely large. I've always felt that the implementation of resource free continuous invisibility in MMOs is a very poor design decision, leading to all kinds of balance and behavior issues. But it is clear that it's a financial decision to attract a certain player base.

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    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    I don't know what percentage of the Seastone player base is Rogues, but I'd bet it is extremely large. I've always felt that the implementation of resource free continuous invisibility in MMOs is a very poor design decision, leading to all kinds of balance and behavior issues. But it is clear that it's a financial decision to attract a certain player base.
    rogue is the 2nd least played class in wow behind only expansion monk, we get it you die to sins a lot

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Wish you had perma-stealth on the forums to prevent threads like this.


    Nerf forum access.

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    So does anyone know if there is a vibrant non rogue PvP community on Seastone?

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    We would prob have more than one pvp server if rogs never had perma stealth and slip away.
    Landslide - Greybriar. ( Vendetta )
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    Rift Master ConclusionTheFirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    rogue is the 2nd least played class in wow behind only expansion monk, we get it you die to sins a lot
    This is not WoW; this is such an idiotic statement, he isn't wrong about certain rogue players.
    Last edited by ConclusionTheFirst; 08-06-2014 at 06:46 AM.

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    Ascendant Rheven's Avatar
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    Seatone is home. we like it there. I see lots of people out. Must not be all that much stealthing going on. I know I almost never do!
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    Rift Master ConclusionTheFirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    I don't know what percentage of the Seastone player base is Rogues, but I'd bet it is extremely large. I've always felt that the implementation of resource free continuous invisibility in MMOs is a very poor design decision, leading to all kinds of balance and behavior issues. But it is clear that it's a financial decision to attract a certain player base.
    It is not the invisibility that concerns me with Rift. For most of WoW after tbc, rogues took skill to play; rogues were high risk/ high reward. Your every escape could be countered and you could be kited to death very easily if you made a mistake. Rift's Rogue gets its cake and eats it too.

    That is why they are not fun to play. There is no risk and I can go something - 0 in a warfront doing the bare minimum while at the same carrying bad teams on dom maps. No other calling or soul in the game gets as many perks as a melee rogue. Oh and btw, EF just got a 2sec buff.

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    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConclusionTheFirst View Post
    This is not WoW; this is such an idiotic statement, he isn't wrong about certain rogue players.
    As another player who is constantly dying to the overwhelmingly bad rogue player base, please re-read what he wrote:

    "I've always felt that the implementation of resource free continuous invisibility in MMOs is a very poor design decision, leading to all kinds of balance and behavior issues. But it is clear that it's a financial decision to attract a certain player base."

    He is talking in broad MMO specturm regarding perma stealth classes and inferring that they are a heavily played classes, hence "financial decision". WoW being, the most popular MMO with the largest subscription base over the past 10 years, with what many would consider a playerbase more apt to "abuse" such an "unfair" class design, it is the least most played class aside from the most recent expansion class. From what I recall, stealth classes were the least played in DAoC as well. Then you have AoC where EVERY class had stealth. You will always have bad apples who use stealth simply to gank people at 1% health, or players who train mobs to kill you, or players who find a legit, but hard to access location to gank you from range, or camp your lowbie as a max level.
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 08-06-2014 at 08:21 AM.

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    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    <3 Seastone

    <3 Necropolis rip 2013

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    Prophet of Telara Morwath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    I don't know what percentage of the Seastone player base is Rogues, but I'd bet it is extremely large. I've always felt that the implementation of resource free continuous invisibility in MMOs is a very poor design decision, leading to all kinds of balance and behavior issues. But it is clear that it's a financial decision to attract a certain player base.
    Same issue on Rogueiron (EU). Seems Roguestone is similiar.
    Last edited by Morwath; 08-06-2014 at 08:58 AM.

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    What's the difference between Rift rogues and WoW rogues that makes them so much more popular? BTW I can't speak for WoW, but rogues were a huge part of the population in DAoC and had entire guilds that did nothing but run 8-20 rogues in the frontiers.

    Also interestingly, in DAoC they finally added an item to counter stealth (prescient nodes I think) and the outcry from the rogue community was so huge that it was immediately nerfed, which sounds familiar IMO.
    Last edited by Caeus; 08-06-2014 at 10:03 AM.

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    Rift Master ConclusionTheFirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    As another player who is constantly dying to the overwhelmingly bad rogue player base, please re-read what he wrote:

    "I've always felt that the implementation of resource free continuous invisibility in MMOs is a very poor design decision, leading to all kinds of balance and behavior issues. But it is clear that it's a financial decision to attract a certain player base."

    He is talking in broad MMO specturm regarding perma stealth classes and inferring that they are a heavily played classes, hence "financial decision". WoW being, the most popular MMO with the largest subscription base over the past 10 years, with what many would consider a playerbase more apt to "abuse" such an "unfair" class design, it is the least most played class aside from the most recent expansion class. From what I recall, stealth classes were the least played in DAoC as well. Then you have AoC where EVERY class had stealth. You will always have bad apples who use stealth simply to gank people at 1% health, or players who train mobs to kill you, or players who find a legit, but hard to access location to gank you from range, or camp your lowbie as a max level.
    WoW Rogue numbers are low atm. However, when WoW was in its prime rogues were everywhere. I am speaking TBC, Classic, and the earlier parts of Wotlk, when WoW was still at MLG.

    Rogue is trash because it's very low risk and very high reward. A good melee player becomes a god and a bad one still contributes greatly to the team via dom maps and ganking fcs.

    I do not like having to work harder for the same or lesser results.

    They are indisputably the best calling in the game for PvP and they are still receiving buffs while others are being "adjusted". At least warlords have counters, ffs.

    But I should not be surprised; as a dev said in the NT livestream, "We are not about fair." It was a joke but the more I look at class balance the more it seems that it isn't.

    Carry on being bad and accusing others of "camping mid" while you sit in stealth though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    What's the difference between Rift rogues and WoW rogues that makes them so much more popular? BTW I can't speak for WoW, but rogues were a huge part of the population in DAoC and had entire guilds that did nothing but run 8-20 rogues in the frontiers.

    Also interestingly, in DAoC they finally added an item to counter stealth (prescient nodes I think) and the outcry from the rogue community was so huge that it was immediately nerfed, which sounds familiar IMO.
    I used to love my scout, until they turned it into a caster... Stealth plays a role, because you always have to be aware of what's around you. It just needs to have it's weakness also, so there is a trade-off.

    I don't think daoc would've been as fun without the stealth classes roaming around the frontiers and keeps.

    Didn't prescient nodes come with ToA and the downfall of everything? The classic servers provided life support for a while.

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    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    What's the difference between Rift rogues and WoW rogues that makes them so much more popular? BTW I can't speak for WoW, but rogues were a huge part of the population in DAoC and had entire guilds that did nothing but run 8-20 rogues in the frontiers.

    Also interestingly, in DAoC they finally added an item to counter stealth (prescient nodes I think) and the outcry from the rogue community was so huge that it was immediately nerfed, which sounds familiar IMO.
    scouts could see melee rogues from afar.

    i remember that all rogue guild. it was like shadowclan or something.
    Last edited by Talzoor; 08-06-2014 at 10:47 AM.

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