Honest Paragon Abilities

[ConclusionTheFirst]

Rogues need to be nerfed too, "Rogues are OP!" is not a justification for Para to be OP. Shaman is what melee classes should be.

I concede that winlord is OP, as it has great damage, decent burst, great durability,god like mobility, and even a safety blanket in nptd. Paragon has great burst, limited mobility, pyro durability and no defensive capabilities besides running away which can be met with roots and stuns.

Theoretically, the soul should be in a perfect spot after the sb nerf. Pretty sure they are looking into the scaling issues for warriors as well.

[Vrab]

sin is also harder than most people think, most people are just bad at it.

My spec is much harder than people think, but your spec is just pressing 1 button!

Sin is hard! lol

On a serious note, paragon is a great soul. Sin is however better at most things, with notable exception of gth+alacrity combo which is insane and way of the mountain which is the most amusing buff in the game vs idiot mm. Crossfire! Crossfire and back paddling! Stronk! Bonus points for guardian phase.

[Livefreeordie]

please tell me what all these amazing assassin debuffs are

please tell me why cc that breaks on damage on a big cd even matters

please tell me what this ability reset assassin has is

please tell me how 15% mitigation and 10% less dmg done is better than 80%dex/str reduction and 20% less damage done

it's no wonder all you bad warriors are complaining about rogues when you don't realize how op paragon is because you're too busy worrying about assassin instead of learning your own class.

haha you are honestly complaining about para with nb and sin or are you just trolling to troll?

are you trying to say para is better 1 v 1 then sin or nb?

or are you trying to say debilitating poison is not better than anything para has on healers?

i just want you to be clear on your stance...para is so much better than nb and sin that it needs a nerf while those two specs are balanced?

[Vrab]

Rogues need to be nerfed too, "Rogues are OP!" is not a justification for Para to be OP. Shaman is what melee classes should be.

As a ranged player I too wish all the melee pvp dps to be like shaman. They get ekkerhard's grasp, so they are balanced.

[Livefreeordie]

I concede that winlord is OP, as it has great damage, decent burst, great durability,god like mobility, and even a safety blanket in nptd. Paragon has great burst, limited mobility, pyro durability and no defensive capabilities besides running away which can be met with roots and stuns.

Theoretically, the soul should be in a perfect spot after the sb nerf. Pretty sure they are looking into the scaling issues for warriors as well.

see this is where I disagree with you, warlord cant shine paras shoes. yea its tanky and stupidly easy to play but its far from OP

[Livefreeordie]

As a ranged player I too wish all the melee pvp dps to be like shaman. They get ekkerhard's grasp, so they are balanced.

para was like shaman pre the charge changes and it wasnt in a good spot. range has way to much mobility and defense hence why shaman is tough to play vs good players.

[Ianto Jones]

I concede that winlord is OP, as it has great damage, decent burst, great durability,god like mobility, and even a safety blanket in nptd. Paragon has great burst, limited mobility, pyro durability and no defensive capabilities besides running away which can be met with roots and stuns.

Grasp the Horizon is egregiously overpowered. Melee specs should not do full damage from range, ever. Limited mobility?? Two charges, 50% run speed, and 0pt pulls aren't enough mobility? No defensive capabilities except for Death Touch, Tranquility, immunity to KB and 5% passive damage reduction (on top of your higher armour and HP). Pyro durability? Give me a break.

You seem to have the Rogue mentality that your specs should be able to counter everything in all situations. Yes, you're susceptible to roots and stuns. So is everyone else. That's like the people saying "just CC them" about Physician. It's irrelevant to overpowered abilities like GTH and Tranquility.

[ConclusionTheFirst]

please tell me what all these amazing assassin debuffs are

please tell me why cc that breaks on damage on a big cd even matters

please tell me what this ability reset assassin has is

please tell me how 15% mitigation and 10% less dmg done is better than 80%dex/str reduction and 20% less damage done

it's no wonder all you bad warriors are complaining about rogues when you don't realize how op paragon is because you're too busy worrying about assassin instead of learning your own class.

Are you that thick? the bleeds, the poisons, the armor penetration, the dozen other passives they get when they attack.

Because good players know how to use the aoe cc to their advantage, I can see why you may be confused.

I said passives, try to keep up. I understand that reading comprehension isn't your thing but try to stay with me.

It is not 20% less damage done in general, get it through your thick skull. Please justify permanent stealth, please justify shutting down teams in dom.

Rogues? The best PvP calling in the game with a myriad of great dps builds and you want to whine and complain about something you can global if you simply paid attention?

Paragon is great st dps, that is all that it is. It cannot carry a team of bads on dom maps, it cannot carry a game without sufficient heals or support.

Perhaps if you removed your head from your *** you would understand this.

[Vrab]

para was like shaman pre the charge changes and it wasnt in a good spot. range has way to much mobility and defense hence why shaman is tough to play vs good players.

I wasn't being serious. :P

Shaman is a walking kb, it's fun to kill people with but it's really bad overall. Kiting them with para or sin is pretty hilarious tho. But it's fine, they got ekkerhard's.

[Livefreeordie]

Grasp the Horizon is egregiously overpowered. Melee specs should not do full damage from range, ever. Limited mobility?? Two charges, 50% run speed, and 0pt pulls aren't enough mobility? No defensive capabilities except for Death Touch, Tranquility, immunity to KB and 5% passive damage reduction (on top of your higher armour and HP). Pyro durability? Give me a break.

You seem to have the Rogue mentality that your specs should be able to counter everything in all situations. Yes, you're susceptible to roots and stuns. So is everyone else. That's like the people saying "just CC them" about Physician. It's irrelevant to overpowered abilities like GTH and Tranquility.

dude pyro does similar burst at range give me a break...

para shines 1 v 1 vs range no doubt though. also GH is needed or para would be awful. legit 0 range, it's also weaker than harbs version so i dont get your logic

[Livefreeordie]

I wasn't being serious. :P

Shaman is a walking kb, it's fun to kill people with but it's really bad overall. Kiting them with para or sin is pretty hilarious tho. But it's fine, they got ekkerhard's.

yea i had the same argument for para pre the changes it was really good if it could stay in melee but way to easy to shut down simply by not being bad. shaman needs better mobility or better range in current meta pvp, not damage increases like i see most clerics wanting

[ConclusionTheFirst]

Grasp the Horizon is egregiously overpowered. Melee specs should not do full damage from range, ever. Limited mobility?? Two charges, 50% run speed, and 0pt pulls aren't enough mobility? No defensive capabilities except for Death Touch, Tranquility, immunity to KB and 5% passive damage reduction (on top of your higher armour and HP). Pyro durability? Give me a break.

You seem to have the Rogue mentality that your specs should be able to counter everything in all situations. Yes, you're susceptible to roots and stuns. So is everyone else. That's like the people saying "just CC them" about Physician. It's irrelevant to overpowered abilities like GTH and Tranquility.

Without GTH, Paragon becomes a gimped warlord without aoe. There would be no point to it and everyone and their mother would own them. As for mobility, when I compare it to warlord, mm, and all the fun tools that live pyro has, it is limited. Though it is not bad to be certain.

Paragon is susceptible to team incapacitating doms, and being peeled easily with damage. It's as if some of you believe that they're running around with 45k health and a 25% heal.

[Vrab]

Grasp the Horizon is egregiously overpowered. Melee specs should not do full damage from range, ever. Limited mobility?? Two charges, 50% run speed, and 0pt pulls aren't enough mobility? No defensive capabilities except for Death Touch, Tranquility, immunity to KB and 5% passive damage reduction (on top of your higher armour and HP). Pyro durability? Give me a break.

You seem to have the Rogue mentality that your specs should be able to counter everything in all situations. Yes, you're susceptible to roots and stuns. So is everyone else. That's like the people saying "just CC them" about Physician. It's irrelevant to overpowered abilities like GTH and Tranquility.

Grasp the horizon is the weaker version of phantom blades. Not saying it's not awesome, but it's really just a c&p from a mage soul.

Mobility is awesome, true. It's also 3 charges, idk why on earth would anyone go for tempest for shock pulse with paragon.

No defensive capabilites is true. You don't use death touch or tranquility to debuff the enemy but to kill him. It's not a debuff you use for debuff's sake. 5% dmg reduction on wotm isn't something that's important. They could remove it altogther and I bet you wouldn't notice it, after all wotm is what it is due to kb immunity - which is great, no argument there. But it's only "defensive" vs pulls, otherwise it's purely offensive in nature since knock backs are defensive. Higher HP? All dps souls get 10 hp per endurance. Sure para goes into wl for offsoul and gets bit more than pure glass cannon. If only rogues could do the same with rs, clerics with justicar and mages with arbiter. Oh well!

Not arguing with you that paragon isn't great, but you blow things out of proportion and make things up. Paragon does good damage and dies easily. It has neat tools for good player to shine with, particularly when backed with heals. It eats glass cannon mages - true. But this is more to do with mages than with paragon, if it would be nerfed to shaman levels as you suggest, it would be just cannon fodder for other classes, harbingers included. I don't mind mage ranged glass cannon spec buffs, but paragon nerfs, no way.

[Livefreeordie]

also dont think people get that tranquility only works on the target you hit not passive from everyone...since you should be targeting healers and using that during sb bursts its not as defensive as you think (except on poor chloros)

paragon is just as squishy as nb and sin except it cant be invisible

again right now no one can complain about para. nb, sin and pyro are all on the same level and so are the new SC hybrids (lol passive knock back vs non paras)

cleric have lol burst in oracle hybrids though as a whole they are behind in dps IMO, too bad they have 3 unreal heal souls to play while warrior has warden

warrior has para and warlord one of which is bad vs good players or heal fests.

[Vrab]

paragon is just as squishy as nb and sin except it cant be invisible

NB is by far more survivable. It has broken twilight transcendence that isn't affected by pvp healing reductions and it has 30 second port/sprint/break free. Sin has slip away and can pick when and how to enter and leave any fight. Not to mention 15% from cloak and dagger > paragon mitigation.

But let's not mention that too much because rogue players will get offended, after all - sin is hard.