Maybe 5% of players run regular WF PMs

[Pandorus]

Separate queues divide the community, create artificial barriers, and increase queue times. When I PvP, I always PUG. I lose more than I win, but then again I suck. Frankly a team is better off going against a PM than having me on their team.

That seems a bit thin. And adversarial. And perhaps not true.

To be less adversarial, you have to list the advantages of separate queues; you've focused on possible negatives of separate queues. That style of presentation is what one would expect where two adversaries are arguing opposing points, with each adversary putting forth arguments tending to their point. To be non-adversarial, you have to look at both points, and make arguments for and against both points.

And, the second and third points seem easily disputable: Restricting premades to face matching teams doesn't seem any more artificial than normalizing gear. Also, queue times would be increased for premades, only. PUGs might see queue times increase, increase slightly, or even decrease, if the separation increased the number of players in PVP.

Also, using "artificial" to argue against a point seems odd: What is bad about an artificial means? In this case, there is a meaningful point to make, but using the term "artificial" hides the point. Better to go directly to the harm, rather than reach the point indirectly.

Thx!

P

[Violacea]

For fully geared myrm players, I imagine they aren't that much of an issue. For people trying to gear up, it is an issue for them. We get it, you have no problem killing people. Can we focus on the majority of the community that isnt as geared as you are?

Again, I'm not opposed to PM's, but your argument (if we can call it that) doesn't really apply.

Yet when I ran solo all day without decked out gear someone had a new story. My story has never changed

despite my gear, level of progression or whatever it may be. I have never had an issue with running solo. I mean, I had a blast on my cleric the first 72 hours of it being 60. Get over these assumed excuses and get it through your skull. I have no problems with premades, never will have a problem with them, don't need them, and have always ran solo for the most part.

Aww, poor people trying to get gear. Let's give them all a tissue. Please. Premades are not an issue. Players are the issue.

then what its the problem if you can finish your Weekly of having premades and pugs fighting premades and pugs? there is a contradiction there . The problem is that premades don't want to have competitive matches because they wont be able to farm WF anymore . Real premades would love to have competitive WF fighting pugs and premades together as well.

What do you mean "what is the problem?". There is none, that is why I posted.

[digital shaman]

I do Guns for Hire on at least 2 characters per week, always solo queue and usually have one finished between the 7am reset and the 10:30 patch. Granted, this is off-peak hours; but I get it done and usually top damage even on my half freelancer's/PvE alt. Terrible players are the issue here, not gear or premades.

I can't deny that a premade of P90's has an advantage, but this is a MULTIPLAYER game. There's ZERO reasons why you can't form or join a group too. Grouping, preparation, communication, strategy and synergy are just as beneficial in WF/CQ as in PvE raids. If you're too lazy to make a group, there's not alot you can do or say about the quality of your PuGs.

[Ianto Jones]

One day you'll all realise that the horrible queue system and frequent pugstomping premades suit Trion's purposes of artificially extending the shelf-life of their 3-year-old Warfronts. In lieu of quality content they rely on soul-crushing strings of losses to keep people queuing. The more time you spend in game the more vials and p2w lockbox consumables you'll burn through. This is not going to change unless Rift's PvPing population rebounds massively with 3.0. Frankly, people mostly don't do Warfronts for fun, they do it for the rewards. If everyone was able to finish their weeklies in a reasonable amount of time Rift would be a one-day-a-week game.

[HeLLBoY77]

For all the people saying they can solo queue weekly no problem come spend an evening queuing with and then say working as intended.

I'm done on the subject, something is wrong that's it

[digital shaman]

Not gonna call out anyone I respect in this thread, but sometimes if you want to WIN, there's more to it than beastly damage and top killing blows. I've seen many fearsome opponents trolled into pointless fighting/CC midfield while smarter players run circles around objectives.

[digital shaman]

This attitude is fine as long as it comes with the self awareness that PMs are a considerably less skillful way to achieve PvP goals.....

Playing devil's advocate here, but I almost wanna say the exact opposite. By PuGging in solo, you forego any coordination or communication about roles or strategy, and leave it all up to chance and random teammates. Zero accountability and every man for himself.

[SprawlnBrawl]

For fully geared myrm players, I imagine they aren't that much of an issue. For people trying to gear up, it is an issue for them. We get it, you have no problem killing people. Can we focus on the majority of the community that isnt as geared as you are?

Again, I'm not opposed to PM's, but your argument (if we can call it that) doesn't really apply.

um my warrior had been leveling up over the past month with zero issues solo queued 95%. my main issue is teams with tank warriors and Dps clerics in pve gear

[Aveleys]

Objectives are just in the game so people with no understanding of pvp mechanics have something to do. No one good seriously cares about them.

[SprawlnBrawl]

For all the people saying they can solo queue weekly no problem come spend an evening queuing with and then say working as intended.

I'm done on the subject, something is wrong that's it

i do see you a lot on the losing end of matches. you also typically have zero objective marks on the leaderboard, maybe you are part of your losses

[HeLLBoY77]

Not gonna call out anyone I respect in this thread, but sometimes if you want to WIN, there's more to it than beastly damage and top killing blows. I've seen many fearsome opponents trolled into pointless fighting/CC midfield while smarter players run circles around objectives.

No call outs but if you dont have dmg in a WF it turns in a healing fest. Just saying that you can make dmg and help with objective.

I rolled a warrior not a cloth warrior caster.

[SprawlnBrawl]

Objectives are just in the game so people with no understanding of pvp mechanics have something to do. No one good seriously cares about them.

lol you got pushed off mid in white fall by a pug you don't do objectives because you struggle enough just influencing zerg v zerg fights. I find it hilarious you have to run dom and 2 phys healers as well to avoid getting stomped even worse

[Lords0fpain]

Separate queues divide the community, create artificial barriers, and increase queue times. When I PvP, I always PUG. I lose more than I win, but then again I suck. Frankly a team is better off going against a PM than having me on their team.

So, dividing the community, long ques times (due to being a minority), and artifical barriers are a bad thing (like allowing the majority to be PuG stomped, isn't)?

Sweet, guess PvP will get bolstered very soon....so that division, artifical barriers, and que times (wait, we can not even get the content) that exist between PvE and PvP.

Though it sounds to me, the population is not large enough to support both. Which brings us bsck full circle, of letting the minority run rough shot over the majority. Would the goal would be to grow the population, not decrease it.

[ecru]

it's gotten to the point where i just stop queueing during certain times.

the tryhard 3 warrior/2 healer pm at 7am when wf's don't even fill up until they're almost over is a good reason to just stop playing. you know the system is borderline game-breaking when the only solution is to just not pvp. even worse when you queue with two friends who hardly pvp hoping to just play a few decent wf's, the system queues you against them every single game, and they don't ever wanna pvp again.

[HeLLBoY77]

it's gotten to the point where i just stop queueing during certain times.

the tryhard 3 warrior/2 healer pm at 7am when wf's don't even fill up until they're almost over is a good reason to just stop playing. you know the system is borderline game-breaking when the only solution is to just not pvp. even worse when you queue with two friends who hardly pvp hoping to just play a few decent wf's, the system queues you against them every single game, and they don't ever wanna pvp again.

^--- EXACTLY thank you