Class Balance and What Makes PVP Fun

[FordTheWin]

PVP comes in:

• Warfronts
• Conquest
• Duels
• World.

Duels are 1 on 1. World is normally 1 on 1. Warfronts are a combination or 1 on 1's, small skirmishes and team fights. Conquest is mostly team fights. Warfronts and conquest also have other objectives to killing players.

So, if we forget about objectives and consider pvp class balance in terms of the actual fights (which I believe is more important to the majority of players), we have:

• 1 on 1
• small skirmishes (3-6 players)
• Team fights

In my opinion, all these factors should be considered when discussing and adjusting class balance as specs perform very differently in each situation. I am saying this particularly for dps and tank (or dps-tank hybrid) specs.

My belief is that Rift PVP is balanced mostly for Teamfights.

This leads to some melee specs being perceived as extremely strong or overpowered as these are balanced around being able to dive into the enemy team and deal some damage before dying or needing to retreat and be healed. When placed into smaller skirmishes and 1 v 1's, these classes seem too tanky and have too much damage to deal with on this scale.

Hence the "nerf warrior/rogue buff ranged" comments.

If you want to play ranged, don't expect to kill 61 warlords or 61 sins in 1 v 1's or small fights. Wait for them to charge, jump or open onto you and the rest of your team then purge, cc, and burst them along with 3 other ranged characters. Melee need to take much more risks than ranged in order to deal damage, so exploit that in larger fights and let the 1 v 1 tryhards rush vault.

However, without these deadbeat melee characters jumping in, team fights and even skirmishes would consist of people shooting at each other and running away to their healers. No-one would actually die and both teams would spend as much time backing away as they would pushing forward as the "frontline" of ranged run away as soon as they get damaged. It would be really lame.

So yeah, you might be mad because 61 warlords are pretty ridiculous at the moment, but you keep coming back for more anyway. Without these brave souls jumping into a custer**** of arrows, lightning, pain and fire; your l33tmentalist would go 0/0 instead of 5/6 and you would not keep coming back after that.

[Rycee]

I think Warrior has zero CC immune skill in the soul tree. The only thing I can think of is Break Free, which every class has at level 1?

[MaxQuest]

This leads to some melee specs being perceived as extremely strong or overpowered as these are balanced around being able to dive into the enemy team and deal some damage before dying or needing to retreat and be healed. When placed into smaller skirmishes and 1 v 1's, these classes seem too tanky and have too much damage to deal with on this scale.


If you want to play ranged, don't expect to kill 61 warlords or 61 sins in 1 v 1's or small fights. Wait for them to charge, jump or open onto you and the rest of your team then purge, cc, and burst them along with 3 other ranged characters. Melee need to take much more risks than ranged in order to deal damage, so exploit that in larger fights and let the 1 v 1 tryhards rush vault.

As I understood, you are telling that melee having "too much damage" and also "too much tankiness" in 1x1 is fine, because otherwise they wouldn't be useful in teamfights.

Actually not quite. I suppose a more balanced approach would look like:
- in 1x1, melee is on par with ranged, in terms of standing-still ST damage. But, melee should have higher damage output than ranged dps which would consist of instant-only spells. (So that if they would stick 3m close for 24x7 they would simply out-dps them).

- in teamfights: the tankiness melee need to dive, should be granted by their supportive teammates, via ST damage reduction/and mitigation buffs.
imho.

[Kronos v]

World is normally 1 on 1.

only because world pvp is dead (the rogues killed it)

healthy world pvp looks a lot more like conquest, with room for small groups/solos around the edges.

[Otts]

only because world pvp is dead (the rogues killed it)

healthy world pvp looks a lot more like conquest, with room for small groups/solos around the edges.

Open world pvp is dead because there's no rewards and it's stupidly unbalanced with PvE weapons and trinket being BIS.

[Sezex]

World pvp is not 1v1, its me+2 heals vs whoever got bad karma today.

and fyi 61 wl is garbage. 61 para 2 temp 13 wl is lolmode.

[ConclusionTheFirst]

what make pvp fun crunk win go boom boom pow pow lol rip

[Tookmyjob]

healthy world pvp looks a lot more like conquest

No.

World PvP can actually be fun.

[Ianto Jones]

I think Warrior has zero CC immune skill in the soul tree. The only thing I can think of is Break Free, which every class has at level 1?

You realise that Paragon has permanent, unpurgeable immunity to the most effective and prevalent anti-melee CC in the game, right? Just making sure we're clear.

P.S. All your charges remove movement impairment effects. Elude removes all CC. Riftwalk. Defensive Maneuvers.

P.P.S. Poor Warriors! Life is so hard!

[Wrastion]

I think Warrior has zero CC immune skill in the soul tree. The only thing I can think of is Break Free, which every class has at level 1?

You can get a CC break leapback from low temp. Any subsoul 61 can do it.

I think the thread is mainly talking about warlord, which has spammable clear the breach which should be fixed. You have to stun/fear/etc.. them because rooting doesnt work. They'll just pull you and stun you or spam clear. In either case there is no kiting. Even if you CC them they can thunderous leap or just mount up and kill you. I just played several wfs tonight and clear the breach was easily what killed me since you cannot kite, even with multiple ports, stuns, etc.. "look its clear the breach macroed in hitting me even though I'm kiting." Its a bit ridiculous. especially the third-4th time you get away and it hits you, again, macroed in and spammable. Sure give me a port ability that lets me port 15 meters for 10 seconds straight we'll be all good. lol.

@ the OP front line warriors being tanks or half tanks are fine. Being the best dps or one of the top dps with burst if geared with CC and also a tank which you can't escape because of multiple, multiple abilities like speed boosts, pulls on low cd, spammable charges, and normally multiple charges. So yes we could do without them and have a use for actual tanks with CC abilities and peels. Actually WL as is nullifies a couple of said such builds because its too powerful for what it is and these functions are overwritten by it. The roles are skewed and its an all in one package. Everyone already knows mathematically why they are overtuned; its just Trion has no care for balancing pvp. Heck look how they dealt with fixing crosshealing and more specifically physician. A blanket heal nerf to all souls. Should we clap now?

Why I don't play my r90 warrior hardly anymore.
1. CP stacking is the best route and to get that fast you would be buying boxes, then upgrading cp gear. GAme is RNG crazy for best of best.
2. I really did get tired of spamming a few macros that have literally 12-15 lines in them since its all OGCD.

Keep in mind I'm all for them actually buffing the other, completely unused warrior souls. Trion has a history of majorly screwing up and making 1 warrior soul purely FOTM and OP and keeping it that way for a while. The rest, eh...

[Otts]

It's fun when you can faceroll with certain spec yet you see plenty of players crying that spec is not viable or even asking to buff it. ;)