+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 11 of 11
Like Tree4Likes
  • 2 Post By Kronos v
  • 1 Post By Sezex
  • 1 Post By ConclusionTheFirst

Thread: Class Balance and What Makes PVP Fun

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    11

    Default Class Balance and What Makes PVP Fun

    PVP comes in:
    • Warfronts
    • Conquest
    • Duels
    • World.

    Duels are 1 on 1. World is normally 1 on 1. Warfronts are a combination or 1 on 1's, small skirmishes and team fights. Conquest is mostly team fights. Warfronts and conquest also have other objectives to killing players.

    So, if we forget about objectives and consider pvp class balance in terms of the actual fights (which I believe is more important to the majority of players), we have:
    • 1 on 1
    • small skirmishes (3-6 players)
    • Team fights

    In my opinion, all these factors should be considered when discussing and adjusting class balance as specs perform very differently in each situation. I am saying this particularly for dps and tank (or dps-tank hybrid) specs.

    My belief is that Rift PVP is balanced mostly for Teamfights.

    This leads to some melee specs being perceived as extremely strong or overpowered as these are balanced around being able to dive into the enemy team and deal some damage before dying or needing to retreat and be healed. When placed into smaller skirmishes and 1 v 1's, these classes seem too tanky and have too much damage to deal with on this scale.

    Hence the "nerf warrior/rogue buff ranged" comments.

    If you want to play ranged, don't expect to kill 61 warlords or 61 sins in 1 v 1's or small fights. Wait for them to charge, jump or open onto you and the rest of your team then purge, cc, and burst them along with 3 other ranged characters. Melee need to take much more risks than ranged in order to deal damage, so exploit that in larger fights and let the 1 v 1 tryhards rush vault.

    However, without these deadbeat melee characters jumping in, team fights and even skirmishes would consist of people shooting at each other and running away to their healers. No-one would actually die and both teams would spend as much time backing away as they would pushing forward as the "frontline" of ranged run away as soon as they get damaged. It would be really lame.

    So yeah, you might be mad because 61 warlords are pretty ridiculous at the moment, but you keep coming back for more anyway. Without these brave souls jumping into a custer**** of arrows, lightning, pain and fire; your l33tmentalist would go 0/0 instead of 5/6 and you would not keep coming back after that.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    209

    Default

    I think Warrior has zero CC immune skill in the soul tree. The only thing I can think of is Break Free, which every class has at level 1?

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple MaxQuest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FordTheWin View Post
    This leads to some melee specs being perceived as extremely strong or overpowered as these are balanced around being able to dive into the enemy team and deal some damage before dying or needing to retreat and be healed. When placed into smaller skirmishes and 1 v 1's, these classes seem too tanky and have too much damage to deal with on this scale.


    If you want to play ranged, don't expect to kill 61 warlords or 61 sins in 1 v 1's or small fights. Wait for them to charge, jump or open onto you and the rest of your team then purge, cc, and burst them along with 3 other ranged characters. Melee need to take much more risks than ranged in order to deal damage, so exploit that in larger fights and let the 1 v 1 tryhards rush vault.
    As I understood, you are telling that melee having "too much damage" and also "too much tankiness" in 1x1 is fine, because otherwise they wouldn't be useful in teamfights.

    Actually not quite. I suppose a more balanced approach would look like:
    - in 1x1, melee is on par with ranged, in terms of standing-still ST damage. But, melee should have higher damage output than ranged dps which would consist of instant-only spells. (So that if they would stick 3m close for 24x7 they would simply out-dps them).

    - in teamfights: the tankiness melee need to dive, should be granted by their supportive teammates, via ST damage reduction/and mitigation buffs.
    imho.
    Last edited by MaxQuest; 07-31-2014 at 02:16 AM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    7,230

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FordTheWin View Post
    World is normally 1 on 1.
    only because world pvp is dead (the rogues killed it)

    healthy world pvp looks a lot more like conquest, with room for small groups/solos around the edges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    only because world pvp is dead (the rogues killed it)

    healthy world pvp looks a lot more like conquest, with room for small groups/solos around the edges.
    Open world pvp is dead because there's no rewards and it's stupidly unbalanced with PvE weapons and trinket being BIS.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

  6. #6
    Rift Master Sezex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    682

    Default

    World pvp is not 1v1, its me+2 heals vs whoever got bad karma today.

    and fyi 61 wl is garbage. 61 para 2 temp 13 wl is lolmode.
    Last edited by Sezex; 07-31-2014 at 03:57 PM.

  7. #7
    Rift Master ConclusionTheFirst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    671

    Default

    what make pvp fun crunk win go boom boom pow pow lol rip

  8. #8
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    1,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    healthy world pvp looks a lot more like conquest
    No.

    World PvP can actually be fun.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rycee View Post
    I think Warrior has zero CC immune skill in the soul tree. The only thing I can think of is Break Free, which every class has at level 1?
    You realise that Paragon has permanent, unpurgeable immunity to the most effective and prevalent anti-melee CC in the game, right? Just making sure we're clear.

    P.S. All your charges remove movement impairment effects. Elude removes all CC. Riftwalk. Defensive Maneuvers.

    P.P.S. Poor Warriors! Life is so hard!

  10. #10
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rycee View Post
    I think Warrior has zero CC immune skill in the soul tree. The only thing I can think of is Break Free, which every class has at level 1?
    You can get a CC break leapback from low temp. Any subsoul 61 can do it.

    I think the thread is mainly talking about warlord, which has spammable clear the breach which should be fixed. You have to stun/fear/etc.. them because rooting doesnt work. They'll just pull you and stun you or spam clear. In either case there is no kiting. Even if you CC them they can thunderous leap or just mount up and kill you. I just played several wfs tonight and clear the breach was easily what killed me since you cannot kite, even with multiple ports, stuns, etc.. "look its clear the breach macroed in hitting me even though I'm kiting." Its a bit ridiculous. especially the third-4th time you get away and it hits you, again, macroed in and spammable. Sure give me a port ability that lets me port 15 meters for 10 seconds straight we'll be all good. lol.

    @ the OP front line warriors being tanks or half tanks are fine. Being the best dps or one of the top dps with burst if geared with CC and also a tank which you can't escape because of multiple, multiple abilities like speed boosts, pulls on low cd, spammable charges, and normally multiple charges. So yes we could do without them and have a use for actual tanks with CC abilities and peels. Actually WL as is nullifies a couple of said such builds because its too powerful for what it is and these functions are overwritten by it. The roles are skewed and its an all in one package. Everyone already knows mathematically why they are overtuned; its just Trion has no care for balancing pvp. Heck look how they dealt with fixing crosshealing and more specifically physician. A blanket heal nerf to all souls. Should we clap now?

    Why I don't play my r90 warrior hardly anymore.
    1. CP stacking is the best route and to get that fast you would be buying boxes, then upgrading cp gear. GAme is RNG crazy for best of best.
    2. I really did get tired of spamming a few macros that have literally 12-15 lines in them since its all OGCD.

    Keep in mind I'm all for them actually buffing the other, completely unused warrior souls. Trion has a history of majorly screwing up and making 1 warrior soul purely FOTM and OP and keeping it that way for a while. The rest, eh...
    Last edited by Wrastion; 08-01-2014 at 01:17 AM.

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,133

    Default

    It's fun when you can faceroll with certain spec yet you see plenty of players crying that spec is not viable or even asking to buff it. ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts