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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Physician vs Chloro

  1. #121
    Ascendant wickede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    Didn't you have me on ignore?

    First, as I said before, looking at HPS solely is a BAD method of measuring throughput because HPS only states "I healed people when they were not at full health."
    Meters such as supermeter will also take into account shielding which is HPS that is not wasted at all.
    As such, when you pair a spec such as Chloromancer which is all green numbers, vs Purifier and phys that can put down shields, the HPS that a Chloromancer seemingly puts out looks low.

    Second, if you look at the HPS+OPS of a Chloromancer within a raid, you'll find that it is just as high if not higher than phys/tact. As that will tell you the actual throughput that is put out.

    Simply because you're sniping heals, does not mean your healing is more effective, thats like saying a Warden pulling high HPS during Crucia's orbital strike totally means its a better healer than Chloro.
    I bet you ran around saying Tact/bard was a good healer too right?
    i took you off because i was told you were making a bunch of funny posts that weren't even remotely true, which seems to still be the case since you don't seem to know healing at all.

    if you don't want to measure how much healing a soul does based on, well, how much healing to does, then what do you want to measure it on? look at magcillian for example, raid fight that ticks about 10k dmg every second to all 20 members, a phys/tact using no shields only pure heals will do WAY more than a chloro will. also afaik super meter isn't even updated to include physician shields, so your argument there is flawed.

    how often you heal, aka how often you "snipe heals" is also important, if you're healing more often that means your heals react faster even if they heal for less, doesn't make them any less useful(i guess we are ignoring the fact that chloro actually snipes heals better than any other spec with double ticks on dots, spores, withering vine, and radiant spores just non stop healing. and at a time yeah, bard/tact was a good healing spec, actually the top aoe healing spec in the game at its prime even when corrosive spores was viewed as super op.

    you're starting to sound a lot like kiika, next you're going to start saying somebody is padding heals because they are healing when nobody is taking enough damage to die.

  2. #122
    Ascendant Bliter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    Didn't you have me on ignore?

    First, as I said before, looking at HPS solely is a BAD method of measuring throughput because HPS only states "I healed people when they were not at full health."
    Meters such as supermeter will also take into account shielding which is HPS that is not wasted at all.
    As such, when you pair a spec such as Chloromancer which is all green numbers, vs Purifier and phys that can put down shields, the HPS that a Chloromancer seemingly puts out looks low.

    Second, if you look at the HPS+OPS of a Chloromancer within a raid, you'll find that it is just as high if not higher than phys/tact. As that will tell you the actual throughput that is put out.

    Simply because you're sniping heals, does not mean your healing is more effective, thats like saying a Warden pulling high HPS during Crucia's orbital strike totally means its a better healer than Chloro.
    I bet you ran around saying Tact/bard was a good healer too right?

    What? So sniping heals is worthless, pulling people from the brink of death means nothing. Gotcha

    I have never been hit by Orbital Strike, you'll never guess why though. I wouldn't know where to get hit by it. This is the pvp forum, really, I just checked because this thing you posted is so far from anything going on in a WF or CQ, I thought maybe I was the one in the wrong forum.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    i took you off because i was told you were making a bunch of funny posts that weren't even remotely true, which seems to still be the case since you don't seem to know healing at all.
    Indeed, which is why your entire argument isn't about my understanding of healing at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    if you don't want to measure how much healing a soul does based on, well, how much healing to does, then what do you want to measure it on?
    I will assume that you are being obtuse because I was quite clear in my argument about the measurement of healing potential

    HPS = healing done when people were injured.
    OPS = over healing done when people were not injured.
    HPS + OPS = Potential Throughput.


    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    look at magcillian for example, raid fight that ticks about 10k dmg every second to all 20 members, a phys/tact using no shields only pure heals will do WAY more than a chloro will. also afaik super meter isn't even updated to include physician shields, so your argument there is flawed.
    Well...yes...because

    A. It can snipe heals very effectively, heck Tact/bard was capable of doing so without Physician.

    B. There are other healers as well, so if they top everyone off and the Chloro throws in their heals, ts over healing, it doesn't appear on the HPS meter. This happens all the time, including WoW where there is both burst damage and attrition based damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    how often you heal, aka how often you "snipe heals" is also important
    Sniping heals is not important. End story. In fact it is seen as really bad.
    Ask anyone who has raided competitively in WoW or any other MMO, ask Ahov, and Deew, and Muspel, and anyone else who has done anything remotely hardcore and been in charge of healing.
    Sniped heals are heals that would have been covered.

    If the entire raid takes 2500 damage, and you have a 5s period where no one is injured.
    You pop Flourish and heal everyone instantly for 5k.
    Three other healers use their abilities a fraction of a second later for 2600 for the entire raid.
    You just sniped their heal.
    The raid would have been healed anyway, you sniped it, you're now higher up on the HPS meters. It didn't matter, a single bit.

    This is why Tact/bard was considered a bad healing spec, you weren't actually gaining any healing that another healer wasn't already going to provide already. You only brought it for Power core and as soon as that went to the same stack group as Wild growth it became useless. Well unless you lacked a Chloro.


    This is why, when people talk about healing potential, you measure the HPS + OPS, because HPS is only saying "I healed when people were not at full health."

    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    you're starting to sound a lot like kiika, next you're going to start saying somebody is padding heals because they are healing when nobody is taking enough damage to die.
    If that is what Kiika said, then its disappointing that you would speak in such a mocking tone.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bliter View Post
    What? So sniping heals is worthless, pulling people from the brink of death means nothing. Gotcha
    That isn't sniping heals Bliter, and I am wondering if Wickede is holding the same thoughts as you do as to what constitutes sniping heals.

    Sniping heals, is where you heal a target that would have been healed anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bliter View Post
    I have never been hit by Orbital Strike,
    I don't care, its an example, quit being a nitpick.

    Edit: In anycase, as I doubt Wickede, and you, seem to be willing to try and understand what is being said, I'll simply bow out the conversation. Have a good evening, go get em with your Warlock Wickede. Heh.
    Last edited by Katosu; 07-29-2014 at 11:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  5. #125
    Ascendant wickede's Avatar
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    k it's pretty obvious that you're either just trolling, or you don't have a grasp on how healing works at all, and that's completely ignoring the fact that you don't understand how specs compare to each other or how they work at all, back on ignore you go, please just stop posting your misinformation here that's not what the new players need.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    if you don't want to measure how much healing a soul does based on, well, how much healing to does, then what do you want to measure it on? look at magcillian for example, raid fight that ticks about 10k dmg every second to all 20 members, a phys/tact using no shields only pure heals will do WAY more than a chloro will. also afaik super meter isn't even updated to include physician shields, so your argument there is flawed.
    One of the first things I did when phys went live was to edit my SuperMeter-Filters.lua file to include phys shields to see how much they were actually doing. You don't even need any coding skills for it, it's just a matter of copying the format of previous lines and typing in the ability name.

  7. #127
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    Chloros still not fixed in pvp
    And trion apply flat healing nerf just lol. Phys and ST healers still be relative strong, and chloros will die more faster.

    No reason to play chloro again at all.

    Changes what I would like to see:
    self symbiosis or self synth, spamable st heal NH would perfect for this without cast time, like active treatment, 1 break free its own tree, essence conversion only 5% damage or not at all, living shell should be stronger.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

  8. #128
    Plane Touched Belorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    In a regular WF, SC or SC/Ele can't even come close to Pyro.
    I was talking about Stormcaller / Arb. Learn to read.


    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    You *might* get good numbers in a non-domination map if there are good heals on both sides but that is generally AOE fluff

    AoE fluff? Oh you mean Hailstorm? Lemme check my latest breakdown of a PVP match and see what the top 3 is:


    Breakdown


    Oh wow, look at that! All single target!


    Quote Originally Posted by EverydayAnomaly View Post
    and you won't actually kill anyone.
    Pew?


    You have no idea what spec I'm refering to do you?
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  9. #129
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Physician is trash alone. Saves are horrible. Even maintenance therapy can hit higher than emergency response. And never use Biofeedback without break free up. What a joke, any 2 DPS can mash one because it can't save itself during crunch time. It just has steady passive healing that keeps things good when they are going good. But when it gets bad, Physicians are not pulling miracles.

    They are good, but relative to how good this forum claims they to be, they suck.
    Last edited by Violacea; 07-30-2014 at 09:16 PM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  10. #130
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    People don't realize the difference that the absorb trinket makes in pvp for healers. It is a big outlier for physician and cleric healers mostly. Even with chloro it is a bit OP. I am sure if Chloro and Lib were actually balanced with other two classes they would need to do extensive nerfs to all the healing souls anyway. No one would die.
    Last edited by Planetx; 07-31-2014 at 03:08 AM.

  11. #131
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belorian View Post
    I was talking about Stormcaller / Arb. Learn to read.


    AoE fluff? Oh you mean Hailstorm? Lemme check my latest breakdown of a PVP match and see what the top 3 is:

    Breakdown

    Oh wow, look at that! All single target!

    Pew?

    You have no idea what spec I'm refering to do you?
    Actually, you didn't say what build in your post. But you were referring to another post that did mention that build, and once Xalista pointed that out I came back and replied. However, I will still stand by the fact that the original poster said more dps than pyo -- to that I disagree. No SC or SC hybrid ST build has more dps. It just doesn't. I do see a nice niche role for the SC/Arb build, though (and also if your team is short on heals).

    One other thing - load 51 in Dom and the rest in SC/(Arb or Harb). Makes for an awesome Dom build now.
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  12. #132
    Champion DrkC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Physician is trash alone. Saves are horrible. Even maintenance therapy can hit higher than emergency response. And never use Biofeedback without break free up. What a joke, any 2 DPS can mash one because it can't save itself during crunch time. It just has steady passive healing that keeps things good when they are going good. But when it gets bad, Physicians are not pulling miracles.

    They are good, but relative to how good this forum claims they to be, they suck.
    Well I think a lot of people would tend to disagree with you, given my experience with them to this point. Not everyone can be the best dpser ever
    Fiveball@wolfsbane - Mage
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  13. #133
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    OT:

    what is Katosu in game name? jw

  14. #134
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    In the Blighted Chamber --- Callbiter is awesome... ran it twice tonight in there and it was really nice. You can get better dps from Pyro on other maps, but on that one, you would be crazy to go with Pyro over that build.. i am a believer.
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  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Physician is trash alone. Saves are horrible. Even maintenance therapy can hit higher than emergency response. And never use Biofeedback without break free up. What a joke, any 2 DPS can mash one because it can't save itself during crunch time. It just has steady passive healing that keeps things good when they are going good. But when it gets bad, Physicians are not pulling miracles.

    They are good, but relative to how good this forum claims they to be, they suck.
    Probably should play bard then right? LOL.

    If it was trash you wouldn't play it, nor would any of the other smart players who know whats overpowered. Unless of course I'm mistaking all the players I know who only play the best specs and they just all suddenly play physician? LOL.

    You only played cleric inq and if you healed, no one knew it, but you play Phys a lot-at least I saw you did. Makes sense. How dumb do you think people are? I guess pretty dumb. Are you comparing your physician saves/survivability vs. the imagined other healer you played which never happened? Good comparison.

    I'll just go ahead and sum you up. You trash talk a soul, say it sucks, compare it to other healing souls you've never played, or, if you did, to no competency, yet play it. Are you campaigning for us to call you stupid?
    Last edited by Wrastion; 07-31-2014 at 08:51 PM.

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