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Thread: Conquest is possibly the worst PVP experience I've ever had in any game.

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Conquest is possibly the worst PVP experience I've ever had in any game.

    Why is it mandatory?

    In it's current state Conquest is easily the least skill-involved, and most exploited portion of Rift PVP. It doesn't matter how good you are at your class, you are not going to have much of an impact on the outcome of a match. And if you aren't part of the pre-made the chances of you actually winning are slim to none.

    I'm okay with Conquest being in the game, but it shouldn't be the only route for gear progression because:

    -It's regularly exploited. I don't actually understand why pre-mades are even allowed to exist in the first place. Pre-mades aside, in a perfect world, you still only have about a 33% chance of winning your match due to there being 3 different factions. With pre-mades, it's more like 10%. That's asking a lot out of players -- to play a 40+ minute game where you might win once every 10 games or so.

    -Of all PVP modes, Conquest is the least reflective of personal skill, or effort. You can play your heart out or AFK the entire time, the outcome is going to be the same. In a Warfront you can have a major impact on the outcome of a match, and if you AFK, you'll likely draw attention to yourself.

    There are a ton of other problems, such as mindless zerg-festing not being fun. The fact that you have to play a ranged character if you don't want to be seriously gimped. Terrible frame-rate. Huge time investment. etc.
    Last edited by AlphaUnicorn; 07-28-2014 at 01:15 AM.

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    CQ is where the bads congregate so they can smash their AOE macro and pretend that they know what they are doing.

    How else can the worst element of Rift's community think that they are good?

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    Your experience with mass pvp in MMO must be very poor if you think CQ is that bad. It's not mandatory either. CQ can speed up gear progression but it doesnt add anything unique.

    Good leader can change the match as long as you find at least several players to follow. CQ is a place for players who enjoy mass PvP and tactical decision. Zerg is inferior tactic and result of not enough good premades which could help players improve.

    Mass PvP requires a lot more and advanced cooperation with lot's of discipline on top of that. Brain dead zerg created by PUG's is the only reason why CQ often feels like boring and pointless game. We need more incentives which can encourage more players to form premade and improve.

    Rewards system is very poorly done in CQ and this is one of the reasons why there's not enough serious premades. Removing premades from CQ would make it even worse, but with the current state i can see some benefit from reducing the amount of players one premade can enter with to 10 from 20. This would potentially give other factions more chance to get at least one decent group.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

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    CQ takes exactly as much skill as it takes a PM to ROFLStomp PuGs in Warfronts.

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    Champion Marnos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaUnicorn View Post
    Why is it mandatory?

    In it's current state Conquest is easily the least skill-involved, and most exploited portion of Rift PVP. It doesn't matter how good you are at your class, you are not going to have much of an impact on the outcome of a match. And if you aren't part of the pre-made the chances of you actually winning are slim to none.

    I'm okay with Conquest being in the game, but it shouldn't be the only route for gear progression because:

    -It's regularly exploited. I don't actually understand why pre-mades are even allowed to exist in the first place. Pre-mades aside, in a perfect world, you still only have about a 33% chance of winning your match due to there being 3 different factions. With pre-mades, it's more like 10%. That's asking a lot out of players -- to play a 40+ minute game where you might win once every 10 games or so.

    -Of all PVP modes, Conquest is the least reflective of personal skill, or effort. You can play your heart out or AFK the entire time, the outcome is going to be the same. In a Warfront you can have a major impact on the outcome of a match, and if you AFK, you'll likely draw attention to yourself.

    There are a ton of other problems, such as mindless zerg-festing not being fun. The fact that you have to play a ranged character if you don't want to be seriously gimped. Terrible frame-rate. Huge time investment. etc.
    Complaining about conquest in this manner is like complaining about any other form of pvp without taking the time to prepare yourself in order to be competitive. While you can simply derp in solo and hope others will run the show and carry you, you stand a better chance of winning by influencing all of the factors available to you in order to increase the likelihood you will be successful. The best example of this has been ABL, who's leaders invested in VOIP, gear, items and a variety of techniques in order to provide their players with the most reliable consistency of success on the NA clusters. Bottom line: figure out all of the things you can do to influence the outcome and prepare, just like any other forms of pvp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    CQ is where the bads congregate so they can smash their AOE macro and pretend that they know what they are doing.

    How else can the worst element of Rift's community think that they are good?
    Do not be fooled by posts like this into thinking you are in the company of players who matter. The author of this gem is a special type of person who trolls the forums of a F2P mmo that they stopped playing a long time ago. The good news is, even though you are complaining about a problem you have the ability to resolve, at least you aren't like this one here...

    ~Cheers

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    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaUnicorn View Post
    Why is it mandatory?

    In it's current state Conquest is easily the least skill-involved, and most exploited portion of Rift PVP. It doesn't matter how good you are at your class, you are not going to have much of an impact on the outcome of a match. And if you aren't part of the pre-made the chances of you actually winning are slim to none.

    I'm okay with Conquest being in the game, but it shouldn't be the only route for gear progression because:

    -It's regularly exploited. I don't actually understand why pre-mades are even allowed to exist in the first place. Pre-mades aside, in a perfect world, you still only have about a 33% chance of winning your match due to there being 3 different factions. With pre-mades, it's more like 10%. That's asking a lot out of players -- to play a 40+ minute game where you might win once every 10 games or so.

    -Of all PVP modes, Conquest is the least reflective of personal skill, or effort. You can play your heart out or AFK the entire time, the outcome is going to be the same. In a Warfront you can have a major impact on the outcome of a match, and if you AFK, you'll likely draw attention to yourself.

    There are a ton of other problems, such as mindless zerg-festing not being fun. The fact that you have to play a ranged character if you don't want to be seriously gimped. Terrible frame-rate. Huge time investment. etc.
    Prepare yourself for the PMers to come in and tell you it is your fault you don't like CQ, because you don't join a PM or run one yourself. Then say so many ppl enjoy it, right until you suggest seperate ques (for CQ and WFs) and then the sky is falling. After all, those gravy trains can not be interfered with...
    "There are other aspects of the game that we want you to engage in."

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    Champion Marnos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lords0fpain View Post
    Prepare yourself for the PMers to come in and tell you it is your fault you don't like CQ, because you don't join a PM or run one yourself. Then say so many ppl enjoy it, right until you suggest seperate ques (for CQ and WFs) and then the sky is falling. After all, those gravy trains can not be interfered with...
    INB4 lord makes a post that supports his theme of eroding away any mechanics that can be stripped away in order to make his gaming experience less engaging and challenging... wait, I guess we were both late this round.

    ~Cheers

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    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnos View Post
    INB4 lord makes a post that supports his theme of eroding away any mechanics that can be stripped away in order to make his gaming experience less engaging and challenging... wait, I guess we were both late this round.

    ~Cheers

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    Sorry, did the shoe fit?

    Not sure how separate ques "erode" anything, but easy wins. It is choices and the play base should have the option. Think we both know, if that option was in play, ppl who PM now (out of a feeling of having to) would not. That is about the same as the lead dev saying "CQ is popular" when it is pretty much mandatory to progress beyond a snails pace.

    But carry on, who cares what the majority prefers...as long as the minority is happy...
    Last edited by Lords0fpain; 07-28-2014 at 06:18 AM.
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    I don't understand all this QQ about premades

    Take yesterday for example, I entered a match with 1100 kills left, stacked pms on Oath, No pms on dom or NF. I got NF

    now, we had about 90 people on that team, not 1 person was leading when I got there. NOT 1.

    So, I organize the pugs, take lead, get all the raids in decent shape....first fight with the stacked pms, we curb stomped their faces in. All Conquest it was like that from that point on. We Destroyed the stacked pm team over and over and over.

    When timer hit, Oath focused the crap out of us, but dom ended up winning. So the stacked pm team 1. Lost and 2. Didn't get many kills.



    If I didn't enter, that team probably would've ran around without a leader and in the wrong specs and got stomped....another prime example of how its not the premades fault for the current state of conquest
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    [QUOTE=Rgizil;4854I don't understand all this QQ about premades

    Take yesterday for example, I entered a match with 1100 kills left, stacked pms on Oath, No pms on dom or NF. I got NF

    now, we had about 90 people on that team, not 1 person was leading when I got there. NOT 1.

    So, I organize the pugs, take lead, get all the raids in decent shape....first fight with the stacked pms, we curb stomped their faces in. All Conquest it was like that from that point on. We Destroyed the stacked pm team over and over and over.

    When timer hit, Oath focused the crap out of us, but dom ended up winning. So the stacked pm team 1. Lost and 2. Didn't get many kills.



    If I didn't enter, that team probably would've ran around without a leader and in the wrong specs and got stomped....another prime example of how its not the premades fault for the current state of conquest[/QUOTE]

    PMs are concerned with kills and intentionally keep from putting a match away, when they could have easily. So getting caught up in a fight at the wrong time, dose not negate other leaders running from the PMs (while they chase them down). All this, I know you are aware of....

    fault is not the real issue, seperate ques allows everyone to play they they like. The ppl that PM, are the only ones that consider this some sort of punishment.

    Why is that?
    "There are other aspects of the game that we want you to engage in."

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    It takes alot of time and effort on a daily/hourly basis to maintain a CQ PM. Hell id argue its even marginally difficult to do so for a competent warfront group. A 5s group... Goodluck finding people willing to put that much commitment into it.

    Do these people deserve to stomp the piss out of any of their opposition?

    Absolutely, anyone putting that kind of time and effort into something should always be rewarded over people who do not. Thats life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    It takes alot of time and effort on a daily/hourly basis to maintain a CQ PM. Hell id argue its even marginally difficult to do so for a competent warfront group. A 5s group... Goodluck finding people willing to put that much commitment into it.

    Do these people deserve to stomp the piss out of any of their opposition?

    Absolutely, anyone putting that kind of time and effort into something should always be rewarded over people who do not. Thats life.
    As I said, the minority is happy. And as another thread showed...rift will never get higher than 1% of the market share. As it is happening in PvE, as well as PvP now. They really should and could do better.
    "There are other aspects of the game that we want you to engage in."

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    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lords0fpain View Post
    PMs are concerned with kills and intentionally keep from putting a match away, when they could have easily. So getting caught up in a fight at the wrong time, dose not negate other leaders running from the PMs (while they chase them down). All this, I know you are aware of....

    fault is not the real issue, seperate ques allows everyone to play they they like. The ppl that PM, are the only ones that consider this some sort of punishment.

    Why is that?
    What does that have anything to do with what I posted? I said I organized pugs yesterday and stomped on stacked premades to prove that premades aren't amazing to the guy that made the thread

    what does chasing down other teams have anything to do with this?


    How exactly do YOU know what everyone likes? When I pug, I certainly don't want to be against all pugs, Its boring and unchallenging to organize my team to take out the others. Your posting YOUR opinion and likes and assuming everyone else must think the way you do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    fault is not the real issue, seperate ques allows [U
    everyone to play they they like[/U]. The ppl that PM, are the only ones that consider this some sort of punishment.

    Why is that?
    I am assuming you meant "play the way they like" in that statement. That is the biggest reason pugs struggle in CQ. They play whatever spec they want, do whatever they want, and don't play with a team mentality.

    I pugged in a Steppes match over the weekend. When i got in, the team was down a couple thousand, game was over. Still a lot of kills left. The faction I was on had apperantly been stomped by a PM a couple of times. They were split all over the place, no heals in the raid I was in except for me. I started talking to a few of them, got them to swap to specs that would help keep the raid up. The rest of the raids started listening to one brave soul who decided to make some calls and everyone got together. We knew the game was over but we stayed at one fort and just started fighting both factions as they tried to come in.

    Funny thing - we wiped the PM's the rest of the match (even drove one faction back to their spawn point). People started joking and having fun in chat. I was yelling "This is our fort" and we actually got a ton of kills and had some fun.

    It had nothing to do with PM's. Had the faction i got in on started the game with the same mentality, they would have had a shot at winning.

    You can't get upset when you jump in CQ and do whatever you want (not listening or helping team) and/or run the spec YOU want -- and then be angry when an organized raid wipes you out. I see this every day and I just don't understand why people don't take the time to learn what is needed to be competitive in a large scale team PVP match.

    ***Not directing the last statement at you but at players in general. I see it all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lords0fpain View Post
    As I said, the minority is happy. And as another thread showed...rift will never get higher than 1% of the market share. As it is happening in PvE, as well as PvP now. They really should and could do better.
    I have alot of respect for you. Your right in alot of ways. Things could be better. In a game in which the development team allows their pve heros to troll any actual balance in pvp we really have no chance. Hell even some of the devs/comunity leads have even poked fun at the pvp community shamelessly. I have been for it seems like forever one of the few proponents for pvp. I have always believed Trion would make adjustments once they "got around to it". I casted off other veterans remarks that my hopes were without fruit. Now almost what 2 years later and many of those vets long gone with many others I find myself losing faith.

    I look at those damn p2w boxes and the **** rng on them and I become so infuriated. Almost as infuriated as the poor state mages have been for so long while other classes roll out OP powerhouse dps or hps specs. It is no small wonder so many have left. The games engine is vastly inferior to other games on the market as well. Single thread is a dinosaur of a bottleneck and ridiculous. Ive stayed bc i have loved this game its brought much joy but in the end nothing has changed. The only updates we get are disguised as nothing more than more clever ways to take honest pvpers money in order to be competitive. Now you have to subscribe to have a better chance at RiCs? I do not know how much longer I can stomach it all.
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