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Thread: @Warriors

  1. #46
    Ascendant HannonHellbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talzoor View Post
    Dude I played a guard tank in SWTOR and in Warhammer.

    DPS and healers wouldn't go ANYWHERE without me. 4v4 swtor or 6v6 in warhammer wasn't even considered without at least 1 or 2 guards.

    Guards are NOT a new concept in pvp or in pve or mmos for that matter.

    It's works and Rift can revive their guards, make them more cc/buffs.

    Right now no one guards because it's not needed. All the hardest hitting melee dps spec sans a few like BD and NB are self reliant and only take a minimal amount of heals (if any) to keep them up.

    Melee DPS should hit the hardest but it should also be a fair trade off. They should be reliant on their team to keep them up. Most warriors debate this basic concept which is why people think it's a conspiracy to keep their op spec.

    Why is this so unreasonable?
    No, no one guards because it isn't viable in Rift. It used to be prior to Storm Legion with VoidKnight pulling, silencing, purging, draining. Not to mention block meant something then but now there is not much a tank can do except soak or pull if your a Voidknight. If you have talked to me you'd know I'm a tank fanatic and I could care less about damage.

    I agree CC and buffs could help make tanks good at guarding but hitting warlord wouldn't do that, and putting warlord on par with glass cannons will only mean it dies repeatedly cuz it's squishy and thus pointless, I could see warlord being made more tanky with it's, pulls and Brothers in arms but that isn't going to happen. In the end, warlord hit a good spot but could be tweaked like, the mobility. Hitting it either on it's damage or it's mitigation and you risk putting it too far under par.

  2. #47
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    I saw the changes to WL on PTS, and like them. Although, I'd like to see killing field nerfed by 50% in pvp. That and clear the breach should only root its target, instead of aoe rooting everyone. I'm simply tired of 40k hp bads topping dmg with aoelord, as if they were good.

    WL is the only dps soul in the game that can completely derp in positioning and still destroy.


    http://i.imgur.com/d7DU8eo.jpg

    I don't think anyone should be defending WL. I have in the past, I admit, but I've been on the fence with it simply because it's still bad in 3s and 5s (with the right comp you could make it work in 5s, maybe), but in WFs it's just really annoying that the team with the most WLs usually wins in pvp.

    Honestly, if I had to set up a 15 vs 15 team. I'd make it with 7 WLs (40k hp WLs), a BM, 2 Doms, Lib, chloro, and 3 physicians, and that would stomp anything. Just have the WLs link everyone and rotate guards. Nothing could beat that, simply because WL aoe is ******ed, and GL focusing down a WL, even if they over-extend. It's true that a bladedancer could out dmg a WL in terms of aoe, but they're tender as ****. You'd have to get to the back lines with squishy ST dps if you really wanted to kill a healer (not like you would kill a healer if you got there, say hello to brothers in arms and guard, and 7 WLs charging at you for over-extending). That's just a simple thought experiment, so don't freak out, I'm sure we're all glad that 7+ WLs don't usually end up on the same team.

    WFs just aren't fun for anyone when one soul gets to faceroll everything else. However, I do completely destroy people as paragon too, but at least I can be focused down easily, which is the way it should be. All dps souls that are capable of topping damage should be tender, you can't have one of them with twice the eHP and expect things to be balanced. I do think RB should be buffed, along with tempest, but that's no reason for WL to remain OP.
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  3. #48
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    I'm simply tired of 40k hp bads topping dmg with aoelord, as if they were good.

    When I read this I interpret it is, you think ST damage should dish out a total sum of more damage than AoE damage. That is the point of AoE'ing, it is suppose to do more damage than ST. This is PvP though, not hardcore parse raiding. Who cares if an AoE causes someone to go higher on the scoreboard than a highly efficient ST damage disher? From the small time in PvP in eq2, I had the head honcho damage disher, nobody had nukes like the wizzy. But anytime the silly Warlock from my guild would play with me, he'd beat me half the time because warlock was a total AoE sorcerer (I was a single target sorcerer). I still hurt people WAY harder than he did, but he beat my damage a lot in PvP situations. Beating the lock on the parse is for another e-peen waving thread.

    I've seen the AoE hit, it seems like a fine hit though. Maybe I am interpreting it wrong. This game needs AoE souls back if it doesn't bring better niche to tank souls I think. There are so many times when people are clumped up perfect. That is exactly the time and place AoE's should be used. If a PVE raid can form a triangle of DPS, heals, and tank, to avoid overlapping AoEs, I am pretty sure some PVP'ers can spread out. Or it will also give power to actual AoE souls when mixed in with powerful ST souls. I just don't see why AoE is treated like a bastard child in this game. As if you are never suppose to use it, it isn't suppose to do more damage than ST in a sum, and it should never be worthy of using in PVP. That makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by Violacea; 07-16-2014 at 04:42 AM.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    I don't think anyone should be defending WL. I have in the past, I admit, but I've been on the fence with it simply because it's still bad in 3s and 5s (with the right comp you could make it work in 5s, maybe), but in WFs it's just really annoying that the team with the most WLs usually wins in pvp.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    When I read this I interpret it is, you think ST damage should dish out a total sum of more damage than AoE damage. That is the point of AoE'ing, it is suppose to do more damage than ST. This is PvP though, not hardcore parse raiding. Who cares if an AoE causes someone to go higher on the scoreboard than a highly efficient ST damage disher? From the small time in PvP in eq2, I had the head honcho damage disher, nobody had nukes like the wizzy. But anytime the silly Warlock from my guild would play with me, he'd beat me half the time because warlock was a total AoE sorcerer (I was a single target sorcerer). I still hurt people WAY harder than he did, but he beat my damage a lot in PvP situations. Beating the lock on the parse is for another e-peen waving thread.

    I've seen the AoE hit, it seems like a fine hit though. Maybe I am interpreting it wrong. This game needs AoE souls back if it doesn't bring better niche to tank souls I think. There are so many times when people are clumped up perfect. That is exactly the time and place AoE's should be used. If a PVE raid can form a triangle of DPS, heals, and tank, to avoid overlapping AoEs, I am pretty sure some PVP'ers can spread out. Or it will also give power to actual AoE souls when mixed in with powerful ST souls. I just don't see why AoE is treated like a bastard child in this game. As if you are never suppose to use it, it isn't suppose to do more damage than ST in a sum, and it should never be worthy of using in PVP. That makes no sense to me.

    Read my post again. You can top damage with aoe, that's fine, but not with 40k HP. I never said that ST should do more in total damage than aoe. It's the survivability of WL + its aoe potential that is out of whack.
    Nerfshot/Slowshot/Noobshot

  6. #51
    Champion Bluntmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainDogs View Post
    Cutting dps output in a healing intensive state of this game? If they were concerned about wl's they should bring other souls up to the same output. ttk is way too slow in wf's now. It makes for a stale game that isn't dynamic nor fast pace.
    Role locking in WFs could solve a lot of this problem and is a much easier solution.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    Read my post again. You can top damage with aoe, that's fine, but not with 40k HP. I never said that ST should do more in total damage than aoe. It's the survivability of WL + its aoe potential that is out of whack.
    I'm not sure if you're serious or not. You think it is aoe which makes warlord good/too good?

    We're talking about 2 aoe abilities: wave of steel which isn't supposed to be used at all and killing field which is supposed to and is used as a st gain. Or do you think you'll aoe the hell out of people with clear the breach?

    Last I checked it is wl's st which is very high, and is in fact not behind paragon at all, that one gcd every minute aside. And that one gcd every mintue can be 100% negated by a single shield, while wl's dps isn't reliant on SB proc.
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  8. #53
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    I saw the changes to WL on PTS, and like them. Although, I'd like to see killing field nerfed by 50% in pvp. That and clear the breach should only root its target, instead of aoe rooting everyone. I'm simply tired of 40k hp bads topping dmg with aoelord, as if they were good.

    WL is the only dps soul in the game that can completely derp in positioning and still destroy.


    http://i.imgur.com/d7DU8eo.jpg

    I don't think anyone should be defending WL. I have in the past, I admit, but I've been on the fence with it simply because it's still bad in 3s and 5s (with the right comp you could make it work in 5s, maybe), but in WFs it's just really annoying that the team with the most WLs usually wins in pvp.

    Honestly, if I had to set up a 15 vs 15 team. I'd make it with 7 WLs (40k hp WLs), a BM, 2 Doms, Lib, chloro, and 3 physicians, and that would stomp anything. Just have the WLs link everyone and rotate guards. Nothing could beat that, simply because WL aoe is ******ed, and GL focusing down a WL, even if they over-extend. It's true that a bladedancer could out dmg a WL in terms of aoe, but they're tender as ****. You'd have to get to the back lines with squishy ST dps if you really wanted to kill a healer (not like you would kill a healer if you got there, say hello to brothers in arms and guard, and 7 WLs charging at you for over-extending). That's just a simple thought experiment, so don't freak out, I'm sure we're all glad that 7+ WLs don't usually end up on the same team.

    WFs just aren't fun for anyone when one soul gets to faceroll everything else. However, I do completely destroy people as paragon too, but at least I can be focused down easily, which is the way it should be. All dps souls that are capable of topping damage should be tender, you can't have one of them with twice the eHP and expect things to be balanced. I do think RB should be buffed, along with tempest, but that's no reason for WL to remain OP.
    FFS someone finally gets it.

    +1 this.

    I would like it 10 times if i could.

    Too bad nothings gonna change but at least people are noticing the balance issue.

  9. #54
    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    Warlords become really OP when there's like 10 of them all spamming skilling field.

    So basically every warfront.

  10. #55
    Shield of Telara Talzoor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aveleys View Post
    Warlords become really OP when there's like 10 of them all spamming skilling field.

    So basically every warfront.
    Or when dangerous people like leddy plays them.

  11. #56
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    Read my post again. You can top damage with aoe, that's fine, but not with 40k HP. I never said that ST should do more in total damage than aoe. It's the survivability of WL + its aoe potential that is out of whack.
    Warriors do survive some absurd stuff while adequately taking me down. Though I would say burst potential isn't that far out of the ballpark of what a Rogue can do. Just if we are putting down heavy pain, we are not a very hefty target without a healer. Well, I guess compared to a warrior D:.

    Though I think their damage (and aoe damage) is completely fine.
    Last edited by Violacea; 07-16-2014 at 03:49 PM.
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  12. #57
    Plane Walker deathstormer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowburn View Post
    I saw the changes to WL on PTS, and like them. Although, I'd like to see killing field nerfed by 50% in pvp. That and clear the breach should only root its target, instead of aoe rooting everyone. I'm simply tired of 40k hp bads topping dmg with aoelord, as if they were good.

    WL is the only dps soul in the game that can completely derp in positioning and still destroy.


    http://i.imgur.com/d7DU8eo.jpg

    I don't think anyone should be defending WL. I have in the past, I admit, but I've been on the fence with it simply because it's still bad in 3s and 5s (with the right comp you could make it work in 5s, maybe), but in WFs it's just really annoying that the team with the most WLs usually wins in pvp.

    Honestly, if I had to set up a 15 vs 15 team. I'd make it with 7 WLs (40k hp WLs), a BM, 2 Doms, Lib, chloro, and 3 physicians, and that would stomp anything. Just have the WLs link everyone and rotate guards. Nothing could beat that, simply because WL aoe is ******ed, and GL focusing down a WL, even if they over-extend. It's true that a bladedancer could out dmg a WL in terms of aoe, but they're tender as ****. You'd have to get to the back lines with squishy ST dps if you really wanted to kill a healer (not like you would kill a healer if you got there, say hello to brothers in arms and guard, and 7 WLs charging at you for over-extending). That's just a simple thought experiment, so don't freak out, I'm sure we're all glad that 7+ WLs don't usually end up on the same team.

    WFs just aren't fun for anyone when one soul gets to faceroll everything else. However, I do completely destroy people as paragon too, but at least I can be focused down easily, which is the way it should be. All dps souls that are capable of topping damage should be tender, you can't have one of them with twice the eHP and expect things to be balanced. I do think RB should be buffed, along with tempest, but that's no reason for WL to remain OP.
    lol like damage means anything.... =) You have played warlord you know it's all fluff till BE. You could do 1 mill damage and you're not as effective as that Paragon/sin/NB/shaman/pyro etc who got 20 KB to your 3. All you are doing is a warlord is spearheading the team. The reason teams with the most WL's win is because people attack warlords and not the squishy rogue beside them. The padded AE damage just makes people think you are the one doing all the killing. It's fine that every other AE class is ranged (cept BD) tho? To me the 40k Hp's is to compensate for the need to get close to AE
    Last edited by deathstormer; 07-16-2014 at 04:05 PM.
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  13. #58
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathstormer View Post
    lol like damage means anything.... =) You have played warlord you know it's all fluff till BE. You could do 1 mill damage and you're not as effective as that Paragon/sin/NB/shaman/pyro etc who got 20 KB to your 3. All you are doing is a warlord is spearheading the team. The reason teams with the most WL's win is because people attack warlords and not the squishy rogue beside them. The padded AE damage just makes people think you are the one doing all the killing. It's fine that every other AE class is ranged (cept BD) tho? To me the 40k Hp's is to compensate for the need to get close to AE
    BD has heavy AoE's mixed with decent heavy hitting single target stuff. I just think it's great BD flies under the radar. People complain about killing field yet say BD is bad. Math says that makes no sense.
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  14. #59
    Plane Walker deathstormer's Avatar
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    I agree 61 point needs slight reduction. But to BE that's when they are dangerous. The 1 min CD 61 point ability is what makes the 61 pointers powerful. And the only change i would suggest is maybe remove the spamable Clear the breach. make it reset both charges but not off CD.
    Last edited by deathstormer; 07-16-2014 at 04:10 PM.
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  15. #60
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    I just never got why people complain about AoE like it should viably exist, in general. I think in general the AoE souls need love. They work, but the windows are too small and the consistency isn't good enough. It is to the point where melee souls with self PB AoEs (much easier to hit) are capable of better AoE damage in PvP almost from a pure mechanic point of view than real AoE dps souls. If I could execute all my Sab damage as promised as say my BD AoE damage, Sab would be very dangerous to crowds. It is now but, it requires very fine clumping and dispersion in the middle of execution and totally screw things up big.

    Don't know, ST dps is fine in this game. I don't know why everything AoE has to be borderline junk. >.<
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