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Thread: Cleric Sentinal vs. rogue physician healing

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    Shadowlander
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    Default Cleric Sentinal vs. rogue physician healing

    Need some help in understanding something here... as cleric healer for several years in warfronts my opponents could always see my cast bar and interrupt me and i would have to worry about mana. i dont have a rogue so i'm wondering when i try to burn them down i dont ever see much casting that i can interrupt nor do they ever seem to run out mana.. can mages drain them like they can clerics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SennaGreybriar View Post
    Need some help in understanding something here... as cleric healer for several years in warfronts my opponents could always see my cast bar and interrupt me and i would have to worry about mana. i dont have a rogue so i'm wondering when i try to burn them down i dont ever see much casting that i can interrupt nor do they ever seem to run out mana.. can mages drain them like they can clerics?
    Dis horse, she is dead. I recommend doing a forum search of you missed the previous threads.
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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    I am in way too talkative of a mood today. This will spill out naturally but if you want to learn something, it has good content.

    Three of their fairly good abilities do require a cast time - but a Physician can get by pretty nice (if the situation allows) with their instants. Their shield finisher is a cast, one of their saves (Physician saves are a joke) is a cast time, and our best CP building heal is a casted ability.

    You can energy drain a physician to the point where that coupled with pressure will just leave them unable to hit the buttons they need to hit to live. But yes, it is much harder and not quite as fluid to 'drain' a Physician as it is your typical healing cleric. It more so comes down to use active drains coupled with pressure. Whereas a cleric will get low on mana and even if the pressure isn't insane, they just start going down. Killing a Physician is really about laying it into them on the spot. You need pressure and either active drains or quality CC. If they are in top notch healing mode, they will only have 1 break free. And if they have a second break free, their healing isn't going to be strong enough to really throttle some good DPS from killing them much more than a 61 would. I think the hybrid does better in smaller scale situations.

    Physicians are less powerful than people think. It's just that Rogues and Clerics are very different machines in how they operate. You don't necessarily approach a Physician with the intent to kill them the same way you would perhaps approach a healing cleric at times. No, Rogues do not get "drained" and they have a good 20s CD ability to restore enough energy to hit a good button. But you can catch them in a crutched moment where their energy is just not hot and staying rather low, so the point where survival requires using the abilities with casting times, which is a double edged sword. Sometimes my casted abilities are the saving cause for me, and sometimes I underestimate my own liberty and in turn get debilitated/interrupted. Without a break free, that is when things get nasty. Remember I said, Physicians really don't have great saves.

    The sad truth in the best Physician save is probably a crit massive therapy. I've seen massive therapy crit for *well* over 20k with proper buffs up (I think my highest was a 27k crit). Which is a joke when you see our Emergency Response has been butchered to the point where it pretty much is just a 8 - 9k heal (more if you go deeper in RS) o-gcd heal coupled with some shielding. I'll take a crit Massive Therapy to save me any day over ER. At least when it could crit it had a small chance to redeem itself and act like you'd expect a save to work. And if we get our Death Prevent triggered, if nobody is helping us, we are probably heading to the grave soon anyway.

    A rogue healing is just a completely new thing to this game, but I feel too many want to approach it (or want it to be approachable as) a cleric healer. With proper execution and understanding of a Physicians weaknesses, they can go down for sure. I wish they would un-do all the ER response nerfs. For the short time it worked in a natural way, it at least felt like I had something that truly saved me. But now it hardly hits harder than my 6s CD heal ability when it crits. And yes, ER is instant. The only nerf I can sort of agree with is not allowing support care on the Rogue. It does seem intended to be an ally buff and allowing it to be cast on the Rogue almost ensure it will never by an ally buff.

    Hope I answered something you were looking for. They are just different machine and need to be treated as such when taking them out. Unfortunately due to the way they work, it results in a cleric being easier to solo kill than a Physician. But I think when it comes to crunch time healers can save themselves better. Their saves are phenomenal compared to Physician saves. When a defiler gets close to being mashed, they can pop an alien and pretty much take on God Mode for 10s. When a Physician is low, unless they get some amazing crit, proper CC and pressure will keep them low and probably knock them out.

    In a nutshell, TLR - A Physician has plenty of vulnerabilities and nothing counters a soul better than knowing it like the back of your hand. That is why after playing Rogue (and a whole lot of Sin) for 3 years, when I finally got my cleric max level and some gear, being attacked by an assassin as an Inq was too easy. It was easy because I knew in almost a second nature form, everything the assassin is going to try to do, and what will make their life the most hell against me. Know your enemy ;). If you do in Rift, they can all die quite easily. But this is a team game and sometimes you need help. If you ask me, this sometime is beyond the hardest aspect.
    Last edited by Violacea; 07-03-2014 at 11:25 AM.
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    Shadowlander
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    yeah , it really helps to understand things from a pvp pov. I got that now and understand. i obviously dont heal all warfronts (fewer these days.. i used to be a top healer), but I'm happy with dps and have a lot of fun with it. Now that I understand how they work it makes it easier and less frustrating to play my role (shaman or inquis). So thanks again for your writeup and have fun.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SennaGreybriar View Post
    Need some help in understanding something here... as cleric healer for several years in warfronts my opponents could always see my cast bar and interrupt me and i would have to worry about mana. i dont have a rogue so i'm wondering when i try to burn them down i dont ever see much casting that i can interrupt nor do they ever seem to run out mana.. can mages drain them like they can clerics?
    Since when do rogues use mana as a resource?
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    @OP: No, Mage drains are significantly less effective against Phys than they are against Clerics. That's 2-0 to Physicians!

    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    The sad truth in the best Physician save is probably a crit massive therapy. I've seen massive therapy crit for *well* over 20k with proper buffs up (I think my highest was a 27k crit).
    So wait. You're telling me an instant, 40s CD ability heals for 25k+? No wonder Physicians are impossible to kill, holy ****.

    You complain about Emergency Response being so weak, you realise that that's the same ability that Sentinel and Chloro have, right? "Bawww this skill is so bad, it works exactly the same as other healers!"
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 07-03-2014 at 11:37 AM.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    @OP: No, Mage drains are significantly less effective against Phys than they are against Clerics. That's 2-0 to Physicians!



    So wait. You're telling me an instant, 40s CD ability heals for 25k+? No wonder Physicians are impossible to kill, holy ****.

    You complain about Emergency Response being so weak, you realise that that's the same ability that Sentinel and Chloro have, right? "Bawww this skill is so bad, it works exactly the same as other healers!"
    Teams that still cant coordinate dps & CC to kill a physician, more news at 11 about bad pvpers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    @OP:So wait. You're telling me an instant, 40s CD ability heals for 25k+?
    Not quite. First of all, the CD is 30 seconds.
    2nd, it requires combo points, but that can be nulified.
    3rd its not an instant ability that heals for 25k, its an instant ability that CRITS for 25k, probably in cp gear. In WL/myr gear, with 680 cp, I can tell you it heals for 9k, and crits for around 18k, no endurance runes, no defensive orbs.

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    Rift Chaser Avind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post

    You complain about Emergency Response being so weak, you realise that that's the same ability that Sentinel and Chloro have, right? "Bawww this skill is so bad, it works exactly the same as other healers!"
    Are you saying that currently in pvp Emergency Response heals a comparative amount to

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    Violacea can you write my next paper for me please.

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    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
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    Only person that posts walls of text that i bother to read.

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    Rift Master Sezex's Avatar
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    Point is u cant kill any of them cause u are p50 dps and they are p90 heals, thats how rift works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SennaGreybriar View Post
    Need some help in understanding something here... as cleric healer for several years in warfronts my opponents could always see my cast bar and interrupt me and i would have to worry about mana. i dont have a rogue so i'm wondering when i try to burn them down i dont ever see much casting that i can interrupt nor do they ever seem to run out mana.. can mages drain them like they can clerics?
    In the end you see from your own perspective how you perform vs. said soul healing, and how hard it is to kill said soul vs. your dps vs. killing other healing souls.

    If you conclude like me, who has a r90 cleric that I've shelved since I did enjoy healing, used to top heals regularly, and now realize it does not compete, and also dps and realize what soul is the worst to kill, then you can make your own conclusions.

    This thread will fill with those who play it (all those you see defending it). I've personally seen a lot of them playing it. And those like you and I.

    If you tell me what callings you play I can tell you the best souls for trying to kill physicians. Not that these souls are any different then the best ones for killing the other healers-which they do easier-but the ones that can make a physician go on the defensive.

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