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Thread: Mage future PvP direction

  1. #106
    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    What are you all doing playing mages by page 7 of this thread. Anyone good would have rerolled by the second page. Bads will be bad.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Its been clear from the op that we are refraining from over reacting and seeking some information on where mage is heading pvp wise. Its you guys complaining about efforts that is causing any problems in here.
    You've been told several times, this isn't the right place to discuss it.
    The reason you don't want to listen is because the possibility of being wrong alienates youin some manner.

    Its like when RR told some newbie that he was playing the spec wrong, the guy took it as an insults.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  3. #108
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    The issue with pyro is that everyone is running melee specs atm. Prs Pyro may parse higher on dummies but the reality is for pvp if your standing still you are dieing. Melee will simply run to your side or through you to interupt your cast. You will be fodder. Not cannon fodder bc u wont even get a shot off after they charge in and dance around your los.
    This is not true there is more range rollers than melee in general. Half the players running melee are running sin/rs or hybrid tank spec at lower gears and rank. Even at high rank most of the r90s are running rangers, mm, inqs etc. The only class that is usually running melee full time is warriors. Common sense will tell any good pvp mage in that situation where you are faced off against warlord warriors you would roll a dom and keep them cc'ed as much as possible.

    You can basically ignore hybrid tank specs with good healing on the team. If you don't have a frontline and they have one they should have an advantage but mage can make that advantage go away with dom.. It is the only class that can do it.. If you don't have heals and they do well you will be playing at a disadvantage all game.

  4. #109
    Ascendant Landstalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Its been clear from the op that we are refraining from over reacting and seeking some information on where mage is heading pvp wise. Its you guys complaining about efforts that is causing any problems in here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    You've been told several times, this isn't the right place to discuss it.
    The reason you don't want to listen is because the possibility of being wrong alienates youin some manner.

    Its like when RR told some newbie that he was playing the spec wrong, the guy took it as an insults.
    Orrr, maybe its your opinion that this is not an appropriate place to discuss the future of Mage pvp, but i whole heartedly disagree and would appreciate if you stopped trolling my posts/threads and harassing me. Also do you think you are to tell me or anyone else on these forums whats appropriate? We are trying to have a discussion on the original topic and you keep posting off topic and hindering that discussion. You are purposefully doing so to prevent any vonstructive feedback getting back to Kervik/Trion that may or may not alleviate our concerns. All we want is the courtesy to be included on the discussion the devs are having with the top end raiding guilds. Is it unfair for us to do request this? No absolutely not. Trion should welcome and encourage any and all attempts from the community to offer constructive feedback that will help produce a better game for all involved.

    So once again, please stop trolling this thread.

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  5. #110
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    The class which are the most problematic are warriors when it comes to a group situation on my mage. Try and develop a few playstyles to deal with them. Dom is actually pretty powerful vs. most melee specs like warlord or sin because energy drains and passive drains from the Pain armor actually make their bars go to zero. Also, Dom and Pyro are not as squishy as other range specs.

    Nightblades are worse to deal with because a good nightblade will know when to use their cds on dom to cleanse and there is one cd that allows builders to not use energy but that is a 2 min cooldown where multiple dom cds can be used in the same 2 mins. to keep them contained. Also, Nightblade burst last a short time and you have to be in melee distance to deliver it most effectively. A simple knockback or disable will ruin the burst. Paragon burst is hard to deal with without an absorb trinket since it can be delivered on demand but they don't have any cleanses like nb so you can transmogrify them. They don't have that much problem with resource management though. I think Trion has covered counters more so with Mage than any other class.

    And it could be very well that buffing other classes with the same type of mechanic like Dom or mage CC in general would make it much easier for mages to go dps as they now have another class that can do similar attacks on resources and cc like the mage class.

    I do think Mage has some good melee roles with arbiter/hybrids but they suffer the same problem as other hybrid specs. Only good for pushing the frontline with low killing potential to heal stacking. But I have solo'ed a lot of average geared players on the side with arb hybrid. They are not totally useless and they work in niche play. Harb is probably in need of buffing for pvp if anything else. And personally if you have experience with other range specs Pyro is a bit OP in comparison in current live settings. Point is nerf/buffs to pyro are not the reason why mages do bad. It is the lack of other classes to fulfill the role of dom and the melee of mages that need to be looked at mostly.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 07-08-2014 at 08:23 PM.

  6. #111
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post
    Its been clear from the op that we are refraining from over reacting and seeking some information on where mage is heading pvp wise. Its you guys complaining about efforts that is causing any problems in here.
    And it has been pretty clear that the Mage class is heading back to its caster roots from the SC and Pyro changes and Kervik's responses to feedback on them. More damage, less mobility, less ability bloat, less dependence on cleansable debuffs. SC has two passive damage reductions in the tree and all sorts of other PvP utility, there is no reason at all to question that he's going to look into similar things for Pyro. Maybe you should make suggestions instead of bleating on that you feel abandoned because Kervik isn't laying out all of his development objectives for you (which he has good reason not to).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    And personally if you have experience with other range specs Pyro is a bit OP in comparison in current live settings.
    Good luck with that. Mages have some weird victimisation complex.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 07-08-2014 at 09:19 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    That's a hilarious charge considering you people are complaining that a spec which has 1.5s cast times like our best spec on live is incapable of performing in PvP. You ask for improvements and Kervik makes them and you just keep on complaining, blindly, without ever testing the spec or acknowledging the huge buff that it's getting. Any perceived emotion is disdain, because you're all making reactionary claims without any basis whatsoever. You parrot the same thing, over and over, in the hopes that if you repeat false statements often enough people will start holding them to be true. You're really no better than elfaraon, who's still complaining about 2s cast times in a spec with a single 1.5s cast spell.

    You say that these changes will make the spec useless in PvP. I'm saying if you think that, you are bad, because the spec is quite possibly over-powered as-is. You're whining that Kervik isn't listening to feedback, when he clearly is. You're complaining that Kervik isn't giving attention to PvP utility, even though you have had it repeatedly pointed out to you that he is following the same process he followed with Stormcaller in which every PvP concern was addressed -- as the last phase, once the damage and gameplay were tuned.

    So yes, I am impatient. It's like turning on Fox News every time I come to this forum.
    Though, PTS is an alright starting point, time and time again ppl point out issues they let go to live (because a few ppl on PTS tested it) and end having to address the same issues in the form of nerfs or buffs.

    Relying on long (yes, 1.5 secs is a long time in PvP) to be able to mount any kinda of offense is problematic. You think a ppl pointng it now makes you "impatient", better stock up on heart medication then. No one (but yourself) is making you "white knight" the issue and wanting to argue, by calling ppl out.

    I have no issues with the hardest hitting, having cast times...but, that should not be the extent of your arsenal (which is now a melee orientated game).

    guess I can see your issue with fox news, they at least report important things going on (while the others don't report or spend very little time (if "D" is beside thier name). Though I trust none of them, at least a more balanced approach (comparatively) than the others is found there.

    That explains your "they don't agree with me, time to name, cuss at, and/or silence them" mentality. Rather than just either carrying on a civil conversation or just move on with life.
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  8. #113
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    Most of the new pyro's burst can be used without standing still.

    Sentinel would suck if 1.5s casts were "impossible" to use in pvp

  9. #114
    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Most of the new pyro's burst can be used without standing still.

    Sentinel would suck if 1.5s casts were "impossible" to use in pvp
    Other healers also make sure sent stays alive and good dps peel for their healers, dps classes will not be a priority like sents. Really not the same comparison, due to priority of who healers need to keep up when pressure is on more than one person, at a time.


    Looking at it from a PuG point of veiw and not a PM point of veiw. As the majority in WFs tend to PuG.
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  10. #115
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    And it has been pretty clear that the Mage class is heading back to its caster roots from the SC and Pyro changes and Kervik's responses to feedback on them.

    Good luck with that. Mages have some weird victimisation complex.
    I understand what Kervik's intent is, i just don't like it. I think mobility in a ranged spec is important in PVP. That is just my opinion, though. Obviously, many others wanted a caster spec (although I would bet most, if not all, of them were PVE players - simply because Pyro is so gimped in PVE - they thought this would be a good way to get a better spec by making this concession) because it really does not make sense for PVP.

    To the other poster who says current live Pyro is OP: Then why don't you see all those Pyros in matches? In every other class, you mostly see people playing their best specs, so if Pyro is OP, then logic would follow that you would see Pyros everywhere. Instead, you see the spec that is borderline OP: Dom.

    So, there is no victimization here, just facts. With LOS issues and gap closers that other classes have, mobility is pretty important in PVP. To say that we will get a caster spec that is more powerful, instead - well that remains to be seen.

    Also - someone else mentioned that the big hitters on PTS are mostly mobile. That's backwards to me. I would rather have fireballs mobile and stop for the big hitters when they come off CD, it makes more sense.

    In conclusion, dumbing down the spec by removing cool abilities is also something I'm not too fond of. Is Pyro too difficult for people to learn currently? That is actually what makes the spec interesting, there are no one or two button macros on the current live spec. So, in a nutshell the changes are:
    1. Turret the spec
    2. Dumb it down (inB4: Other classes are to follow this. One year from now? When?)
    3. Maybe make it more powerful (if you stay alive long enough)

    I'm not saying the 2.8 changes may not work when it goes live. It may well work fine for a lot of folks. All I am saying is that this new playstyle is something I am not happy about. Yes, I will play the spec when it goes live, but it won't be a "better" way of playing for me. Just my opinion. Also, inB4 "these changes are happening whether you like them or not so you should just be positive about it and only provide feedback to the new way of doing things". Mainly, I say that because I am not trying to be negative, but I am trying to give feedback on what I think of the changes.
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  11. #116
    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Most of the new pyro's burst can be used without standing still.

    Sentinel would suck if 1.5s casts were "impossible" to use in pvp
    Didn't have time on break, but sents also have cleanses and the "I am about to die, let press this instant and now I have full health" button...lol. yeah not really a fair comparison, as sents had survival tools.
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  12. #117
    RIFT Guide Writer IllusiveEQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    ALL of the new pyro's burst can be used without standing still.
    Fixed 67890
    Illusive - EQ - retired, Illu - EQ2 - retired
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by IllusiveEQ View Post
    Fixed 67890
    I was including the option to time a fireball cast with SB/CD, since cast time abilities play well with "stacking" more than one flight time.

  14. #119
    RIFT Guide Writer IllusiveEQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    I was including the option to time a fireball cast with SB/CD, since cast time abilities play well with "stacking" more than one flight time.
    No point to time fireball, when searing bolt does more damage is instant, has travel time, and procs countdown.
    Illusive - EQ - retired, Illu - EQ2 - retired
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