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Thread: Mage future PvP direction

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    The complaints are all very amusing. People have such short memories. How many things did people complain about with Stormcaller and how many of them were not addressed? I think the only guy that didn't get what he wanted was the one freaking out about thematic continuity in the soul's talent naming scheme.
    I think the issue is lack of action taken on the aspects most affected. If it's going to be made a turret spec, it needs higher damage and/or more defensive cds. Maybe I just missed it (there are quite a few active mage discussions at any given time), but I've not seen anything officially mentioned about making it nuke like a glass cannon should, or giving it defenses like a turret spec needs.

    I know, numbers can be adjusted easier than mechanics, and it's typically the last thing tweaked. That being said, being quiet on the issue might mean it gets overlooked, and then we get stuck with a glass water gun instead of a glass cannon. Mages reroll rogues/warriors, raids cry that they lost their healers, clerics cry that they have to heal more often to attempt to replace the chloros, Mages everywhere smirk as they drain clerics, burst former trolls from stealth, facetank whole teams, and maybe even take out a few squishy glass waterguns themselves. Is this the game we want to see?

  2. #17
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    Feedback is fine. The histrionics are tiresome. People did the same thing with Stormcaller. "Don't change the spec, just give it more damage!". And oh look, SC hybrids are now our top PvE ST DPS specs, SC is the top-parsing 61-point AOE spec, it can hybrid with almost every soul we have, it has a ton of PvP defense and utility, etc. Kervik's approach has been exactly the same with Pyro has it was with SC.

    People who reroll from patch to patch are just stupid, frankly. The balance pendulum swings constantly. Pyro was considered dead in the water a few months ago. It got a band-aid fix, and now it borders on OP. Now it's getting the proper re-work it needs and everyone's declaring it dead before it's even in a functional state.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aveleys View Post
    pyro, currently, does hit like a truck with proper rotations.
    If you try and use 'rotations' as a pyro in PvP you are going to be terrible. Absolutely terrible.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    If you try and use 'rotations' as a pyro in PvP you are going to be terrible. Absolutely terrible.
    You can't predict you're cinder burst procs?

    I think pyro is very strong right now and fun, be a shame to destroy it for pve

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    You can't predict you're cinder burst procs?

    I think pyro is very strong right now and fun, be a shame to destroy it for pve
    Well hopefully getting rid of extinguish brings back a lot more hybrid specs

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Division View Post
    Well hopefully getting rid of extinguish brings back a lot more hybrid specs
    If Pyro's Fireball remains relatively weak compared it its other abilities, Pyro/Dom is out.
    Last edited by Tookmyjob; 07-02-2014 at 03:13 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    If Pyro's Fireball remains relatively weak compared it its other abilities, Pyro/Dom is out.
    Sadly I know..I've mentioned it a few times in those threads

  8. #23
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    Pyro, is being changed to a zero mobility caster in a melee world with no way to go under 2s cast fireballs w/o heatwave with points in pyro. Farewell pyrocon btw! Also as was done with SC the first thing he did was take out one of the best defensive abilities in mage across the board, this time backdraft. Kervik said he has some other stuff in the works for pyro and thats cool and all, but it makes me wonder whats going on with Mages in general regarding pvp. Deadly shards got moved up in place of protection of the wind bc pvers were parsing top ST dps with SC/Arb. So all these changes are being made bc of PVE (duh right), but very little is being said about any direction in regards to pvp. Is pvp even given much consideration at this point? We are all wondering, bc yea maybe we would be better off rerolling another class, when was the last time mage was the bees knees? I honestly dont remember.

    Take a look at the new SC, at first glance ur all gonna think hey Harb/SC would be awesome right! Nope not sorry! The way they made its ST dps with stone armor means you cant also have eldritch armor. Im not saying SC/Harb will be horrible but its def not what I had hope for and Im just not seeing it myself perosonally.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    If they would actually make stuff that has to be casted really hit like a truck no melee can drop, I think that is fair enough. I think that is why Eq2, despite being loaded with BS and having horrible PvP, it did have viable melee and ranged roles and you could play either without feeling at epic disadvantage for being a range or melee. Melee could get locked hard, but shred really fast once up close. Mages sure were glassy, but there were some spells that were almost a death sentence if it crit you (everyone knew when stuff like manaburn or ice comet was coming, epic nukes that with even 100% cast speed took 2 - 3s to cast. The games max casting speed capped at 50% base speed.

    While it had horrible PvP and loaded with BS, I think the fact well played mages could keep melee off them, but prolly die if the melee gets in their face...yet utterly destroy someone if they get casted abilities off before you got to them. Among all the junk that went around, that actually worked. I just think if they make mages cast, it needs to be very painful nukes. I mean nukes that knock out over 50% of your hp easy on a crit. Real nukes. Not this soft 5k non crit nukes. That's not nuking.

    But I don't know how you would incorporate it in Rift. I just know they somehow had it down. While it may take me 2 - 4 seconds to cast a hardcore nuke. As a mage, once a melee got in my face (I had a spammable root in a game with no DR against melee with no ranged attacks), they could kill me or do just as much damage in the time it took to cast the nukes that blew them away if they hit. Something about that worked in that sense. There were several other factors though that made it work, I am shorting the entire picture.

    I personally liked their roots. Not break on damage, and not permanent. But a 30% chance to break on damage and trigger a snare. Now that is a root.
    Lots of good ideas from EQ2, first one for me though, the one they needed to do on day one in this game, level difference cap for pvp. It promoted leveling in OW and there was pvp in every zone during prime time. What they have here though, it doesn't make business sense, I can't tie it to an ethos, and it does nothing to advance interest in the game or the art of pvp. If they really want us pvpers to see more of Rift than TB, let people level up in OW on the pvp servers without getting ganked by 60s. People would explore the world more and it would bring in a wider audience. It isn't even a hard fix to do or one that takes much maintenance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hailolyergory View Post
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lords0fpain View Post
    The future is, reroll a rogue... if you already do not have one.
    That's basically been the case for a long while.

    Damage increased, I think that says it all.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  11. #26
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    Guys, hitting like a truck is not the answer when it comes to mage PvP.

    PvP is all about having a good mixture of defense, offense (generally a good mix of burst and mobile sustained) and having good utility.

    Mage will always underperform until Kervik learns how to copy paste code from rogues for blinks and teleports (so flicker is reliable) and for stealth (harbinger stealth.. lol what a joke) and until mages actually get decent defensive utility with reasonable cooldowns.

    50m teleports through walls for a 32 point investment into a tank tree that also buffs crit chance and provides hanus utility in regards to mobility/escape options.. i mean what kind of sillyness is that?

    Warlord and Riftstalker shouldn't have any +crit nonesense in them, they are tank tree's and as tanks they should be about +mitigation and utility which currently they aren't.

    Mage is relatively alright its just rogues are completely OTT, basically because of this;

    Sentinel/Puri is super hard to kill.
    Warrior and Rogue DPS is buffed to make killing them more likely without drains.
    AoE dps is low so they put all the DPS into killing field to create the illusion of aoe damage on ranged AoE roles.
    Warlord goes around pulling everybody into its death zone, feeling like a badazz.
    NB/RS trolls the lone warrior, who then feels he is somehow underpowered.
    Ranged DPS becomes basically useless as melee have both the ST dps, and the Mitigation.
    And on top they get much better utility, in terms of quantity and reliability.

    The basic problem is that non-rogue ranged AoE specs underperform slightly and sentinel/physician/puri are just overpowered.
    Likewise, some AoE healing specs could use a small buff.

    They also put way too many self healing abilities in DPS tree's that don't belong there.

    And then made assassins basically sustained paragons with stealth (when really they should be equally as squishy and damaging as an ST range spec, perhaps even a little less because of the HUGE advantage that stealth provides)

    And yeah, removing more utility from mage is just.. ****ty.

    We lost Detaunt, Phase Shift, Reconstruct, tons of great utility and a bunch of crit and it was never put back right. The crit finally seems to be getting back to normal but the utility is severely lacking or stuck in 1.4.

    20m charges compared to 15m blinks? That's just totally backwards really

    "but it dispels CC"

    Yeah, and charges apply CC, not a huge difference.

    Too many roots, too many gap closers, too much utility and too much self healing on melee specs, combined with superior damage and overpowered ST healers only results in huge imbalance, and as AoE formations don't arise very often being an AoE spec is largely useless because even when there is a tight knit enemy formation you only pull slightly higher than an ST melee role.

    The problem is primarily bad utility, just look at how much of a game breaker the old warlord SO used to be when it could basically be a death sentence for any player within 34m every 8s.. and it was, anybody could see that. That's just how much of a difference to the game a single utility can make.

    Look at the old eradicate as another example.

    Mages quite simply lack good utility, we have poor ST purges, a lack of roots, a lack of passives and a lack of defensive cooldowns. Then the knockback range is too low, the blink range is too low and other assorted things like transmogrify only being useful on targets above 80% hp.

    Sure people can argue "yeah but you have a stun or X ability" but pretty much every other calling gets the same, they just get a silly amount of extra on top. Even cabalist imo has much better utility than a dominator right now with far superior sustained damage and on demand burst damage.

    Just look at the pathetic damage figures on some spells like nyx's orb and void wall.. spells that literally tick for 42 damage when people have hp pools of 40k.
    Last edited by V1rul3n7; 07-02-2014 at 05:27 PM.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lords0fpain View Post
    The future is, reroll a rogue... if you already do not have one.
    Reroll, A Rogue

    That'll make a great name, add a last name. Voila!

  13. #28
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    Just looked at Pyro on pts and I don't like it for my play style. Not going to whine or give feedback on what could change for the better because it's totally gutted for pvp. It has nothing to do with tuning for dps, its a twofold problem with hardcasting. The lack of mobility is a huge hit to survivability but also consider those hardcasts are going to be seen and interrupted/reflected. Was there some compelling reason in pve that caused this because it was not out of line in pvp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hailolyergory View Post
    All, Please nerf paper it is too strong, but leave scissors alone they are fine.
    Yours Truly,
    Rock.

  14. #29
    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tookmyjob View Post
    If you try and use 'rotations' as a pyro in PvP you are going to be terrible. Absolutely terrible.
    By rotation I mean using a selection of abilities depending on the situation, adjusting them as necessary. Rather than the fireball spamming mages that always make up the pugs in each wf I go into.

  15. #30
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    Is it the 2 second cast time only that mages dont like about the new pyro?? I havent seen any other complaints about it.

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