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Thread: Whitefall Stalemates

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Whitefall Stalemates

    The beginning of Whitefall matches is turning into just another Black Garden stalemate. The problem with WF is the healers can stay out of range of any significant DPS threat. The initial stalemate is going longer than 5-10 minutes and it's resulting in PUGs just giving up most of the time. This is one of my favorite warfronts and it is becoming very boring.

    My suggestion is to have the first stone spawn at one of the far outside spawn points on the ice river. This should break up the healing zerg much earlier and make for a better match.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara Morwath's Avatar
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    Pull, focus fire, gg.

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara
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    So be in a premade and hope they don't have cross healing or Break Free?

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    Pull, focus fire, gg.
    Thank you captain obvious.

  5. #5
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    problem is with players. U can go around them from back and hit the healers. Team with most, rogues or warrior wins, follow by most physician, then follow by healers win. Sad but true. This is Trion's style of pvp. lol. The worst pvp system ever created. And welcome to Rift pvp.

    And sorry, Trion will never attempt to fix or balance up PVP. Their focus is on PVE and how to leech $ from players.

  6. #6
    Ascendant asianguywithacamera's Avatar
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    You just need to coordinate with pugs at the start. Have a tank or warlord run around and control mid, ensuring sufficient heals. Have pugs choose someone to assist and focus fire.

    I'll mark a few healers at the start and usually one or two will drop. Once a few on the other team start to die, you'll see people backpeddling.

    The key is making sure your team doesn't hang back and be passive. The bigger issue is when the other team picks up the stone and you have 2-3 physicians healing them.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Enshu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    Pull, focus fire, gg.
    Pretty much. Or just nuke them down yourself.

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara
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    TTK increase and CP items have really ramped up the advantage of organized groups. You can't just ninja kill premade healers any more.

    It can be pretty frustrating if you are like me and too lazy to even consider coordinating and just want to log in and play some WFs.

    Conquest is now the better place for casual PvP. I don't even WF now if I don't have a quest to complete, it's only about a 1/5 or so chance of actually being a fun experience.

  9. #9
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    the issue is healers not switching to Dps . I see lots of pugs losing cuz they have 6 healers and not enough Dps. they get pushed back once and lose 3-0

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    The strats are all well and good. I've brought them up in other threads. And lets assume for a second that PUGs will actually communicate before the match.

    The main problem is the middle of Whitefall is wide open and there are with no LoS obstructions. That makes WF healing stalemates very different. Imagine how terrible BG would be without the black spires in the middle. That's essentially what the first 10 minutes of Whitefall is right now. It's a small scale warfront setup on a really large map. Healers can stay at max range the entire time without worrying about LoS. You'd have to setup groups like a CQ PM to have any fun in that first 10 minutes.

    The other stones won't spawn until someone has turned in the first stone. And the first one takes entirely too long to pick up with proper healing on both sides. All you need is a Defiler on both sides with decent backup Physician/Cleric healers to make Whitefall really boring.

    My suggestion will not harm groups that PM vs PM battles that focus fire and communicate and it will greatly help PUGs vs PUGS.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    the issue is healers not switching to Dps . I see lots of pugs losing cuz they have 6 healers and not enough Dps. they get pushed back once and lose 3-0
    While I've seen this happen plenty of times, it's not what I'm talking about at all.

  12. #12
    Champion of Telara
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    Let's be honest, DPS didn't all the sudden just get terrible on the PuG side. It's fallen off a cliff because of the healing changes back in March and the new healing souls.

    Can DPS still beat healing with expert coordination, perfect ability timing, and well organizaed focus fire? Of course, but healing is as tough as managing some cooldowns and watching frames. There is a huge skill gap in what is needed to heal well versus what is needed to DPS well. And that has pretty much killed PuG DPS.

  13. #13
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malidrag View Post
    While I've seen this happen plenty of times, it's not what I'm talking about at all.
    it is because if you have 12 dps and 3 healers on each team you wont have a stalemate and the team with more organized dps will win. if you have 6 healers on each team you will have a stalemate unless one team has a PM or all geared out dps, because cross healing without significant pressure is the easiest thing to do in this game
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 06-20-2014 at 07:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    it is because if you have 12 dps and 3 healers on each team you wont have a stalemate and the team with more organized dps will win. if you have 6 healers on each team you will have a stalemate unless one team has a PM or all geared out dps, because cross healing without significant pressure is the easiest thing to do in this game
    yes, yes, yes

    Unfortunately I don't get to decide what roles people play. So this won't help.

  15. #15
    Rift Master Shedelin's Avatar
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    In my experience with Whitefall Steppes, I noticed 2 things:

    1: (Caution: WoW to Rift conversion speech ahead): In the-game-that-shall-not-be-named, the Warsong Gulch battleground teams I've been on generally split the team into attackers (grabs flag, group usually contains rogues with Sprint), midfielders (clash with other midfielders and also are your last line of defense for any flag carriers, this group includes tanks and maybe hunters and one healer, but mostly tanks) and defenders (most of this group includes ranged attackers and stealth detectors). These teams are following the strategy of "control the middle". However, the drawback is attackers knowing this will simply skitter along the side and avoid the clashing midfielders, making controlling the middle useless. Whitefall Steppes here on RIFT generally tries to control the middle, but very little defense and most of the time groups don't go for sourcestone already captured. Looking at both games, it seems the importance of the mini-game of "control the middle" on the-game-that-shall-not-be-named is quadrupled in Whitefall Steppes, because the "flags" actually appear in the middle, making "control-the-middle" strategy all-the-more tactically important.

    2: Teams that win and drive them out of the middle of the map are (90% of the time) the ones that mark the healers and send ambushers to attack the healers forcing the healers to retreat, leaving the other team without heals, meaning you can drive them away from middle, and, with a good built team, actually attack them at their own spawn and maybe even taunt them, but taunting them usually leads to some ignores and reports for offensive.

    So, in summary, to control the middle, you need to mark the healers first thing. If you are buddies with that person and you know his role, all the more the better. Long story short, raid marks are first on your priority checklist.

    Am I going too fast for you all?

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