+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 173
Like Tree38Likes

Thread: Stop nerfing physician!

  1. #31
    Ascendant Nuuli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    2,047

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deathstormer View Post
    Look at the fact that the fotm is the fotm because of the mechanic. it's the non mana bar aspect to healing thats making it a hard class to shut down. And I think rogues should think that if they don't acknowlegde this they will get nerf after nerf after nerf. Add the same mechanic in that locks down mana casters (drain) to power/energy casters. Give other support than dom the chance to lock the new energy bar casters. =)
    Add that the energy bar is always 100 vs mana, the mechanics are very different. Thank goodness warriors weren't given this soul.

  2. #32
    Ascendant Appendy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,626

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pukemonster View Post
    you use macros for phys?


    bad
    your reading comprehension?


    bad

    Please read again I was referring to 1 button dps, not phys.

    #reading is fundamental #no child left behind.

  3. #33
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Km7CSBIsIA



    It's really not individual Physicians that draw ire. It's the power of their cross-healing which outstrips any other calling. Physicians can be killed by good burst and focus fire, but they can't be killed by attrition. Attrition via drains, especially Doms, is and always has been the hard-counter to Cleric-stacking. And it's largely worthless against Physicians because of the way their resource works. I can drag teams with 4-5 healers down to 0 mana in a stalemate battle, but Physicians just keep going and going.

    It's a hard problem to solve tbh. I don't really see any good options beyond some sort of limitations on them healing one another, which would allow focus fire on individual Physicians to prevail.
    Phys is affect more by hard CC rather than Drains, unlike other healers who have bonus break free hence they arent scared of chain CC as much as about constant drains.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  4. #34
    RIFT Guide Writer
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,422

    Default

    So dominator is easily able to take out blue bars from the game for really long periods of time but dom has to actually keep harassing the physician to nullify him. I think that's a much better argument for nerfing dominator's effectiveness against blue bars than for nerfing phys. I wonder where the idea even comes from that it's working as intended if blue bars are not be able to do anything if a dominator is present.

  5. #35
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasacrim View Post
    To mages playing has a dom. There is a habbit bad doms tend to have: they pick a target to drain and drain him, without caring if he was being focused or not. On mana targets, this will work eventually. Now with physicians, bad doms tried to do the same, AND OF COURSE IT WONT WORK!! If there are no dpsers focusing the targer and presuring him, why would you even drain him??
    Sigh. You're one of those people that just mindlessly beats on 45k Sentinels for the entire match then complains that they're OP, aren't you? Sometimes it's good for a Dom to be on the person being focused, but often times it is not the right choice. It depends how many healers the other team has.

    In general, if a DPS train is locked onto one target they have their own CC tools and there's a good chance the target is going to die. Why waste your powerful debuffs on them? You should be looking at a different healer, who is in all likelihood trying to keep that other guy alive. While he's spamming away with his Crucial Invocations you drain all his mana and this ensures that (1) the first guy's toast, and (2) when the DPS train switches to the second guy, he's toast, too.

    Just because you're awful and can't see the value in draining multiple targets doesn't mean the rest of us can't. It's a team game, and Dom wrecks teams.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    Phys is affect more by hard CC rather than Drains, unlike other healers who have bonus break free hence they arent scared of chain CC as much as about constant drains.
    You can keep saying this as much as you'd like, but that doesn't make it true. Chloros and Puris are just as susceptible, and no other healer except Liberator gets to regen their full resource pool while CC'd. CC not only prevents mana users from healing, it prevents them from using their regen abilities. No such worries for Phys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    So dominator is easily able to take out blue bars from the game for really long periods of time but dom has to actually keep harassing the physician to nullify him. I think that's a much better argument for nerfing dominator's effectiveness against blue bars than for nerfing phys. I wonder where the idea even comes from that it's working as intended if blue bars are not be able to do anything if a dominator is present.
    No, you can't take them out for "really long periods of time". It requires constant target-switching, debuffing, purging, and CC to be able to bring a team of several Clerics low (I have eight macros in Dom just for cycling through targets). It's a back-and-forth while they try to regen mana, which massively affects their healing output and GCD starves them. Their team dies slowly as health pools fail to be topped off.

    The point is that it takes time and GCDs for them to regenerate their mana. While they're working on regen, you can be draining another. With Phys it requires a single Dominator to be on them 100% of the time to have any comparable effect. When you CC them, they get all of their energy back. Every 20 seconds -- more often than Transference -- they can oGCD restore half their energy pool. There is no way to kill a team with several of this type of healer. Phys is not OP in itself, Phys stacking is OP.

    And sure, go ahead and nerf Dominator. People are already complaining that Warfronts are terrible because of heal-stacking, I'd love to see how they feel when the only hard-counter to Cleric healers is removed. Sounds like a great idea, doubly so because it's the most effective spec that Mages have currently. Everybody will be thrilled.

    Or maybe Dom has been Dom for 3 years now and Physician is an outlier.
    Last edited by Ianto Jones; 06-16-2014 at 11:42 AM.

  6. #36
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    Phys is affect more by hard CC rather than Drains, unlike other healers who have bonus break free hence they arent scared of chain CC as much as about constant drains.
    Rogues are more affected by CC than mages or clerics? Am I supposed to take this seriously?

    As far as I know only one or two effective cleric builds have the extra break free. Chloros have next to nothing to deal with CC.

  7. #37
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    658

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    Sigh. You're one of those people that just mindlessly beats on 45k Sentinels for the entire match then complains that they're OP,
    No.
    Focusing and pressuring a target properly at the right time is completly different from "beating down one". Bad doms do this, they mindlessly "beat down" some blue bar. Now they have to care about purple bars and cant deal with them.

    If you want to drain and pressure a physician effectively you dont go for a guy that is not being pressured, you chose the one that is and drain him in 2 or 3 seconds. His healing output will be 0 in 3 seconds.
    Not that immortal anymore...
    Last edited by Nasacrim; 06-16-2014 at 01:01 PM.

  8. #38
    Prophet of Telara Morwath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasacrim View Post
    No.

    If you want to drain and pressure a physician effectively you dont go for a guy that is not being pressured, you chose the one that is and drain him in 2 or 3 seconds. His healing output will be 0 in 3 seconds.
    Not that immortal anymore...
    ...and *boom* -> Adrenaline Shot.

  9. #39
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malidrag View Post
    Rogues are more affected by CC than mages or clerics? Am I supposed to take this seriously?

    As far as I know only one or two effective cleric builds have the extra break free. Chloros have next to nothing to deal with CC.
    Chloro isn't in the same pool as Sent, Puri and Phys. It's more of a hybrid soul. Chloros can actually get 30% passive CC reduction from Pyro + blink with a break free on 20sec cd. All of it within 15 points.

    I wouldnt call it "next to nothing", because Rogues dont get any passive CC reduction at all and cheapest bonus break free requires 24 points, target which also requires target and have 45sec.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  10. #40
    Rift Master Nasacrim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    658

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    ...and *boom* -> Adrenaline Shot.
    Heh. Then what? +1 second to live in that situation?
    The best chance you have is to port out and hope for the best.

  11. #41
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsuu View Post
    Its so absurd and frustrating how Devs listened to them after most players spent money to get it and a month later nerf bat hits , its like selling you a car can go 250 mile/hour and after a month it goes down to 80mile/hour .
    Feels like a bad analogy. If a speed limit is considered "balanced" then why would you expect a car that travels 3-4x that value to stay legal?

  12. #42
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    Chloro isn't in the same pool as Sent, Puri and Phys. It's more of a hybrid soul. Chloros can actually get 30% passive CC reduction from Pyro + blink with a break free on 20sec cd. All of it within 15 points.

    I wouldnt call it "next to nothing", because Rogues dont get any passive CC reduction at all and cheapest bonus break free requires 24 points, target which also requires target and have 45sec.
    Except that spec is awful. Putting 14 points in Pyro you're giving up 10% endurance and Opportunity, without which Chloro is all but unplayable. The only place a Pyro subspec is worth it is in CQ, and even there... it's not for Flicker, it's for the 35m range (because for some reason Chloros are stuck with 30m range).

  13. #43
    Ascendant wickede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,568

    Default

    after playing my mage for 2 days, i have come to the conclusion if you can't keep a physician CC'd(excluding when cleanse soul is up because it's a dumb skill) then you are just bad. i've had no problem keeping a physician under 30 energy for ~10 seconds straight, and if they ever do manage to get a spell off they are immediately silenced anyway.

    nevermind the fact that if there are 2 healers, squirrel the physician and watch them cry because of only one break free.
    Last edited by wickede; 06-17-2014 at 11:22 AM.

  14. #44
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    12,128

    Default

    As long as you make them blow their energy re-gain, you can most definitely debilitate a Physicians energy pool to the point where their performance lacks drastically, and 20 seconds to do it. It's just not as easy to do it as a cleric and rehabilitating from such a state is a quicker bounce back for a Physician still if they make it.

    But I wish they would go back on the changes to Emergency Response. For a save ability on a 1m CD it is utterly pathetic. It's pretty much an urgent care that always crits on a 1m CD o-gcd. With a shield.

    That's a good heal. That is not a heal that dramatically saves people. The 75% nerf was somewhat okay when it could crit, because a crit gave you a smaller chance to have the ability perform in an expected fashion. But now that it doesn't even crit, it is really garbage for the ability it sets itself out to be. But maybe that is by design. Physicians pure healing is strong, building and finishers. But their saves are junk, and were not that good before nerfs. Just saves that worked most of the time. The invincible Physician stuff has always been hogwash, any few people focusing on a physician can wrench their more powerful abilities. interrupt the big heal that lets you follow up with an instant heal after. Biofeedback can get killed. If a Physician gets a second break free, their healing will drop in turn by a significant amount anyway, so the high powered healing physicians are highly vulnerable to CC.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  15. #45
    Ascendant bitnine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    2,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    ...and *boom* -> Adrenaline Shot.
    I think people need to get used to the impact that drain has on energy and how it differs from blue bars.

    Consider it a form of near-debilitate that bypasses DR, which makes it best used between two stuns/debilitates to create an extended window of minimal healing. Of all the odd comparisons you can make one of the more important ones is that unlike a caster, a Physician is always 1-2 GCDs away from being throttled by energy drain. It's both more immediate and more short-term due to the nature of energy as a resource.

    When you have something like stacks of MB/TI, popping AS off the bat is less than effective, as you'll burn though that extra energy pretty quickly. Unless you use the AS to fire up a single big heal, which leaves you in a position of having no energy afterwards and AS on timer. Moreover, a good player might watch for the cast and interrupt it at the last moment.

    When used against a target with control DR, the interrupt-every-second effect from AP is still applied. Doing so during a second stun/debilitate allows you to mask it as well. And having those interrupts go off during the DR immunity period can easily catch a Phys trying to sneak off a cast in that window. Suck on that, Biofeedback. And then at the tail end or if the Physician is about to get behind LoS, there's always Priest's Lament for when you're not as concerned about its DR interfering with other CC.

    I've seen at least a few doms sequence out their CC and prioritize break-on-damage effects to coincide with shields. They end up degrading the healing output of a Physician quite severely, and can get him killed if there's any halfway decent DPS about. Although does still tend to be more efficient to sideline the Phys and burn down other cross-healers first.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts