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Thread: PUG's need your help...for just 50 lines of code a day, you too can help....

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Elitizt's Avatar
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    Default PUG's need your help...for just 50 lines of code a day, you too can help....

    I think the problem with random's is the fact that they just don't understand the basic do's and don'ts of pvp. It's like giving someone a driver's license and letting them loose on the world and they don't even have a concept of what a Stop sign is. I'm not saying they need to learn how to keybind, not keyboard turn, macro, snap focus target,etc...(they should learn it all, but baby steps first.)
    Common general knowledge
    priorities for example:
    "All applicable players should focus down and Kill/CC enemy healer"
    "Protect your ally healers, peel, support, cleanse"
    "Communicate, Call Incoming"
    "Cap a node, but ALSO DEFEND it, don't just zerg and desert it leaving it open for recap"
    "Don't roam and roadfight, unless it's in your group's strategy to have certain classes stall the wave"
    "Use stealth to ninja cap an un/underguarded node"
    "learn what the important parameters on a given warfront are...i.e. on Codex-Take Codex and 1 other node and you are more than likely going to win the WF"
    Those are just a few examples of BASIC knowledge that any veteran PVP'r just inherently knows at this point. Why? beause the veteran has either learned from grinding day in and out over and over again, or some other player has handed the knowledge to them.
    Why doesn't any mmo hand these tidbits to rookie players out of the gate? it wouldn't be too terribly hard to put in a few quests/tutorials that make this information even MORE accessible and readily available.


    PUG's are just terrible, to the point that it's not fun to be in a PUGstomp match, on either side. Anyone with alot of MMO experience knows how PUG's work. Their chances of success are WAY higher if everyone in the group is knowledgeable of the given endeavor(be it a PVE raid or a PVP warfront.) The higher the understanding of the task, the higher the success rate. I don't think they have to be as bad as they are.The random player off the street needs to get a grasp on the basics of PVP. There are certain "Golden Rules" that John Doe queing for his random WF for the day just doesn't understand.

    I level alot of my toons in wf's, so I see my fair share incompetency. The random low level player seems to have NO concept of objectives, not trying to burn down tanks with pocket healers on them, using CC, etc. The earlier they learn and get use to APPLYING these fundamentals, the quicker they will blossom and progress to learn and apply other aspects. The will be better prepared for "end game". The more they know, the more valuable of an asset they will become, and in turn the more fun everyone involved will no doubt have.

    There has to be some way to get this information out to new players, quickly and efficiently. An ingame "training camp" or maybe there should be some kind of quest that you HAVE to do that relays the importance of the specific objective(and the finer points of pvp in general) for that particular Warfront before you can unlock it and que for it. Alot of these players could be good players more than likely, if they just had something to help "click the lightbulb on". When people know what they are supposed to be doing and are competent, you don't have to have Raidcall or w/e to have everyone working like bees for the same objective. Everything "clicks" into place and goes alot smoother. The end result is a more fulfilling and enjoyable gaming experience.

    ...or maybe just get rid of all objective based Warfronts and just have team deathmatch K/d mash ups until level 60( or even afterwards for that matter). Let them all zerg pointlessly til the buzzer sounds.

    Another suggestion for pvp that is kind of relevant to this thread would be to put in an option on whether to que solo with no premades allowed or to que with a premade to battle other premades in addition to the the traditional(and dated) setup we already have. This gives players options and opportunities to choose something closer to their palate.

    Also, although I made a joke of it, a deathmatch WF with no objective might be fun to go run every once in awhile. Just pure killing and healing with nothing but scoreboard glory to worry about. A 10 minute quickie bangup of bloodlust and mayhem could definitely have it's own charm.

    I'd like to hear anyone else's ideas or suggestions reguarding this topic that would be constructive.
    I understand that you can't "fix PUG's" as a whole, but I DO believe that if even 20% of the PUG playerbase was blatantly given the "basics" and applied it, it would really start to show. 20% more competent players in the playerbase would a VAST improvement and add to a better gameplay experience for everyone involved. (Trion would probably end up with more "lifer" players and less turnaround too...that's just my .64 cents.
    Last edited by Elitizt; 06-10-2014 at 09:44 PM.
    There are 3 types of people in this world...
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  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Default Codex

    Just one thing...codex is a different case. Everybody know that capping codex is the main target but if your team do not have the power to keep it is better to focus in trying to keep the other 3 targets. I was called ******ed yesterday for proposing to forget codex and cap the other 3, it was against the code of conduct but that is not the case we are talking right now.
    Great post and pretty useful information.
    English is my second language, sorry for grammar.

  3. #3
    Champion
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    Fantastic! Thank you for this thread!

    As a pvp-player, who began with lvl 60, I only understand a few tactics because they are logical. Most times there is no leader (in WF's) so all run with the majority... which is not always the best. To protect certain points and which one of them is the important... thats mostly not ensured. Too often the kills seem to be the goal.

    The idea with ingame training is great! I bet it would help many pvp-ers to have more understanding, knowledge and at last fun!
    Melandra @ Entity @ Zaviel
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    Rift Chaser Pocketzoar's Avatar
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    I would love to see the statistics on what % of the time the winning team is holding bridge in port scion.

    My guess would be at least 90%, It always drives me nuts hearing people say "ignore the bridge and just farm the church".

    Then watch 15 people go straight for the church and get wiped in a nice little confined area with no bridge to spawn back on.
    Undeadwarrior & Zoarbot @Deepwood.
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  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara Gamma Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pocketzoar View Post
    I would love to see the statistics on what % of the time the winning team is holding bridge in port scion.

    My guess would be at least 90%, It always drives me nuts hearing people say "ignore the bridge and just farm the church".

    Then watch 15 people go straight for the church and get wiped in a nice little confined area with no bridge to spawn back on.

    I've only ever seen that work when the team holding bridge is so braindead stupid that they ignore the church while repelling the enemy zerg, and only have 1~2 people to run stones. That's a pretty high level of absent-mindedness, even for Port Scion, so it's not too often.
    "You with your fancy cooldowns and "runic" power! You know where my power comes from!? THE BACK OF MY HAND, #&!$%!"

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma Ray View Post
    I've only ever seen that work when the team holding bridge is so braindead stupid that they ignore the church while repelling the enemy zerg, and only have 1~2 people to run stones. That's a pretty high level of absent-mindedness, even for Port Scion, so it's not too often.
    Anyone would think that it takes 20 minutes to run from bridge to church and vice-versa.

    I have said in Scion before to ignore the bridge and i'll do it again.

    It scores you no points. You only need the respawn point if you lack healing, otherwise its not exactly a marathon to get back. Holding bridge is useful, its not a priority and you can easily win without it by attacking the bridge from the church side giving runners free access to church. If the opposing team attacks from church side holding it can actually be a dis-advantage because you are then blocked from church unless you run through them.

    Priority number 1 in scion should always be taking the enemy idols down as soon as possible. Get dragon on the way and drag it with you to the first idol. Kill the champion then on to 2nd idol. It is the fastest way to get the first 200+ points on the board.

    Then start worrying about church - they will have bridge so you go around the back to get to it. NEVER attack bridge from the dragon side - If you are controlling church and someone manages to ninja the dragon spawn sourcestone keep it. Do not return it, keep it and you cut off the other teams scoring entirely. A lot of the time you can still get church boss too as a lot seem to ignore it.

    If you cannot get control of the church (or more accurately, the area between bridge and church) attack the other teams boss - it will draw them out and stop them scoring if you kill the runners.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    this is a topic that crops up now and then, I've even made it a few times myself.
    while I agree that training warfronts would be great, Trions line is that it is up to the more experienced players to teach the younglings. few experienced players are willing to do so. and few newer players are willing to learn.
    also, the newbie on your team this match may well be on the opposing team next match.

    also, if you think newbies in the low level warfronts are bad, at least they are doing low level warfronts.
    its the players who level to 60 without having once pvped who really need to be forced into training matches before being allowed to play with the big boys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  8. #8
    Champion
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    I came from a pvp-game and played it about 2 years. Thats why I avoided pvp in the first. Beeing a bit bored I tried to have a look into pvp. Now I am r72 and a bit more experienced but would never say, I know all the tacts and tricks or if something is more important as the other... unless it is obviously. Thats why I would love to have a training camp. It is not very funny to be the bloody noob in your team!
    Melandra @ Entity @ Zaviel
    A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
    - Lady Windermere's Fan [Oscar Wilde] -

  9. #9
    Rift Master Sezex's Avatar
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    There is no helping the pugs. Humans play Rift. Majority of human population have low IQ, they are works force in times of peace and cannon fodder while under internal\external threats to the population, essentially they are numbers to sustain population. About 5 out of every 100 are intelligent, rest are just drones. U can see that even in Rift pvp, good\bad players ratio. So.. don't bother.

  10. #10
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaet View Post
    Just one thing...codex is a different case. Everybody know that capping codex is the main target but if your team do not have the power to keep it is better to focus in trying to keep the other 3 targets. I was called ******ed yesterday for proposing to forget codex and cap the other 3, it was against the code of conduct but that is not the case we are talking right now.
    Great post and pretty useful information.
    English is my second language, sorry for grammar.
    The sad part is people cant comprehend capping three is the best tactic to get most the enemy players to jump down to zerg for one of the points because theyll lose with just dex. This is, of course, the best time to get dex.

    I guess smashing my face against a heal zerg with one player aoe'ing dex so you cant capture it was the best course of action and i just didnt know it.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezex View Post
    Majority of human population have low IQ
    I don't think you understand how IQs work.

  12. #12
    Telaran xamen's Avatar
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    I think there are some very good points in the OP. I think there are, not know, because as a subhuman PUG who solo queues I lack the intellect to comprehend it. I'm going to go back to mouthbreathing whilst staring blankly at my monitor. Cheers.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Appendy's Avatar
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    There have times I've been polite (I know, shocking...) and made suggestions that are typically found in successful wf matches and I am almost always met with belligerency from the lower-geared. I think that's why no one tries to correct pugs or when they do, they do it in a rude manner.

  14. #14
    Rift Disciple Elitizt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    There have times I've been polite (I know, shocking...) and made suggestions that are typically found in successful wf matches and I am almost always met with belligerency from the lower-geared. I think that's why no one tries to correct pugs or when they do, they do it in a rude manner.



    I've seen this happen time and time again, I'm not sure if they feel belittled or inferior or what exactly the problem is. Could be sort of ape-like alpha response, I get reminded of the movie "Idiocracy" when that stuff happens. I just try not to get discouraged and keep a glimmer hope for those diamonds in the rough that needed someone to turn on the light switch for 'em. I may work on and compile a guide if I find the time, although I'm pretty sure the type of person that would need to read it the most...
    1. Doesn't go to the forum
    2. Wouldn't listen anyway
    3. they would have to remove their nose from their keyboard to read it on their monitors, thus nullifying their faceroll toon's setup.


    btw: If you haven't seen the movie "idiocracy, do yourself a huge favor and watch it.
    There are 3 types of people in this world...
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    2. People who like to push buttons

  15. #15
    Rift Master Haceldama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pett View Post
    Anyone would think that it takes 20 minutes to run from bridge to church and vice-versa.

    I have said in Scion before to ignore the bridge and i'll do it again.

    It scores you no points. You only need the respawn point if you lack healing, otherwise its not exactly a marathon to get back. Holding bridge is useful, its not a priority and you can easily win without it by attacking the bridge from the church side giving runners free access to church. If the opposing team attacks from church side holding it can actually be a dis-advantage because you are then blocked from church unless you run through them.

    Priority number 1 in scion should always be taking the enemy idols down as soon as possible. Get dragon on the way and drag it with you to the first idol. Kill the champion then on to 2nd idol. It is the fastest way to get the first 200+ points on the board.

    Then start worrying about church - they will have bridge so you go around the back to get to it. NEVER attack bridge from the dragon side - If you are controlling church and someone manages to ninja the dragon spawn sourcestone keep it. Do not return it, keep it and you cut off the other teams scoring entirely. A lot of the time you can still get church boss too as a lot seem to ignore it.

    If you cannot get control of the church (or more accurately, the area between bridge and church) attack the other teams boss - it will draw them out and stop them scoring if you kill the runners.
    I disagree. The bridge is more than a respawn point.

    It is a focal point that is easily defendable. When you hold it, 3-7 players can hold it against 10-15 players easily. That makes everything else on the map much easier for your team. If the other team is completely ignoring it (which I have never seen) then your analysis may be correct. Of course, you should get and hold (do not turn it in) the south stone if you have the bridge. That cuts off some easy points for the other team.

    In my experience, if you hold the bridge you win about 90% of the time.

    Just my thoughts from the Dark Side!!!

    Haceldama
    Last edited by Haceldama; 06-16-2014 at 02:05 PM.

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