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Thread: sentinel vs physician

  1. #46
    General of Telara Nemrud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    Certain dps spec have bonus break free so when you have a choice to CC a healer which only have one break free then it becomes obvious why throw it on him.

    Everyday WF means nothing, you cannot balance around it, because matching system have to be quick as there not enough players interested in pvp who would be close skill and gear wise to match them together.

    If you want more balanced pvp you should be asking for merging all the callings in to one and proper optimization for gear and stats. It would solve most balance issues within few weeks.
    Ouch.

    So needing an above average team of players with highest tier gear, optimal builds, no-macro reflexes & voice communication isn't enough to kill a Physician. We must also create the ideal setting & suitable atmosphere for it? Maybe lure them with candles & wine, soothe them with soft music, then jump their throat when they are asleep.

    Right.
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  2. #47
    Ascendant wickede's Avatar
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    can people just stop claiming chloro has the best utility out of all healers just because of wild growth? that's really not that amazing of utility. oh, and the mix of ST/AE? that's kinda crap too because if you're doing ST healing your AE healing is worse than a physician who just uses group therapy for AE and the rest ST heals.

    if chloro could synth itself it would be on the same level as physician, very tanky healer spec with only one break free and capable of being bursted, as well as their best heals being channeled/casted, so it's very easy to interrupt and silence.

    all that would leave is clerics, who have the absolute best CDs in the game for pvp with HC, flame of life, and UT. oh and defilers have 30% links, which i think are pretty important in the utility category. the only healing soul without any major utility(if you count HC as utility, which i do), would be physician(only utility physician really has is supportive care, which makes up for it in it's raw healing power.


    i still say let mages synth themselves, if it turns out to be a terrible idea, then they can always change it back.

  3. #48
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Truth be told, sentinel is also overpowered.

    So is physician.

    We all know that already, pre-dreamsoulpack a lot of the time fights were determined by "which team has the op sentinel"

    The problem is that the ST healers are too damn good at ST healing, and a lot of melee dps roles are too damn good at ST dps to compensate.

    Something like this:

    1) Sentinel + Puri + Defiler end up being kinda overpowered
    2) In response Ranger, Nightblade, Warlord and Assassin have their mitigation, damage and abilitiy to prevent disconnects increased.
    3) Teams with sentinels still end up being at an advantage
    4) Teams with sentinels + Warlords/Assassins/Nightblades become easy win mode.

    Melee specs had to have their durability increased so they could actually even approach a sentinel without blowing up.

    And their damage too.

    And that left most other souls in the game being easy to demolish unless the team composition was very specific on each side.

    Overpowered healers created overpowered DPS souls, whaddya know.

    And range got basically left behind since melee has the durability AND the damage.
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  4. #49
    Ascendant wickede's Avatar
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    evert ST healing spec is fine right now, EXCEPT chloro, and it's all due to the lack of self healing chloro can do. if people can't take out a healer 2v1 it's because the 2 dps are bad.

  5. #50
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    evert ST healing spec is fine right now, EXCEPT chloro, and it's all due to the lack of self healing chloro can do. if people can't take out a healer 2v1 it's because the 2 dps are bad.
    I get your point, but i still think some notable ST healing souls are slightly overpowered.

    They just have to be because some notable ST damage souls are also slightly overpowered.

    The solution is to nerf both.
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  6. #51
    Ascendant wickede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    I get your point, but i still think some notable ST healing souls are slightly overpowered.

    They just have to be because some notable ST damage souls are also slightly overpowered.

    The solution is to nerf both.
    if they are both overpowered that's called being balanced, nothing needs to be nerfed.

  7. #52
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    This is the part where I have to explain it better because you obviously still dont understand.

    You may heal ST well with Chloro but it's not your primary role, unlike Phys, Sent and Puri which were designed to excel in such situations.

    You cannot have:

    - highest dmg of all healers
    - most utility of all healers
    - best mix of ST / AE healing switch

    and on top of that "steal" even more job from other healers. Even atm Chloro is broken (in pve) as it does too many things with very good results, hence 99% 20 man raids always have at least one of them.

    Buffing Chloros will cause even more complains because on top of the heals they bring very good utility. If you really want Healing soul focus around ST ask Kervik to either rework Chloro or one of the dps spec in to ST healing soul which is balanced around that and other ST healers.
    Highest damage is worthless, this isn't PvE. If a game comes down to your Chloro's DPS then just afk, you lost.

    Most utility? lol. You're seriously going to tell me that all of Sentinel's cooldowns, its AOE debilitate, its run speed buff (castable on others too), second break free, and the ability to reset all of these is inferior to... Living Energy and Wild Growth? Yeah, okay.

    The mix of AOE and ST healing is such an absurd argument I don't even know where to begin. Do you know why people don't play AOE healing souls in Warfronts? Because AOE healing is worthless. Even moreso, consistent-output AOE healing like Lifegiving Veil is garbage in a game where people are bursted down in 3 or 4 seconds. The ability to switch between it? Again, by the time you see someone is taking damage, they're almost dead, and it takes you a GCD to switch between LGV and LBV.

    Then you skate over Chloro's inherent weaknesses. Chloros do not have a 35m range. Chloros require a target to heal off of. Chloro is the most immobile soul in the game. Chloros have the weakest options for personal defense of any healer on top of their inherently lower armour rating.

    Allowing Chloros to Synth themselves really won't imbalance PvE, because they still can't cross-heal with Veils. You say Chloro is OP because every raid uses it. Is Defiler OP? Is Puri OP? No. They're powerful and useful. That is not the same as overpowered. By that assessment Archons are OP, give me a break.

    Always post, never think.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    1. does he? or you count sub souls for it?
    2. wrong, you can drain him just fine when... (see nr 3)
    3. you cant use it when you get CC'd and that's his weakest point as he dont get bonus break free. Having high regen means nothing when you cant use your abilities.
    4. doesnt remove stuns and it's not Phys ability but Rogue ability. Clerics get their own special PA abilities.
    5. It's nerfed in PvP with the next patch, so gl reling on rng while Sent get more reliable defensive cds.
    6. 0 TP in RS is close to useless, it doesnt remove CC and it have 45sec cd.
    7. Biofeedback is useless against competent players. It may not only get interupted but you can also get debilitated due to secondary effect on certain interupt abilities.
    And I will use that ability each and every time a physician FINALLY casts biofeedback.

    Fact is Physician absorbs last it through most CC anyways, so a very bad point. Would be great if most dps actually put it into threatening stages from CC, but they don't on a (good) Physician. I know, I'm one of a few that actually get a Physician to move in stalemate heal wars in a pure burst dps spec that knows how/when to interrupt which leads to a debilitate. Even then I'm only pressuring and hardly any other soul can do that.

    On sent or any other soul I'll just kill them (chloro, bard, etc..) or eventually drain them due to hard hits and mana drain. Then its the game of can I dps hard enough whilst interrupting the regen and I win. In one case I've severely put the sent/defiler puri (puris are easy to kill btw) on the run. Physician-well lets just say I believe the soul is too easy and was OP so most didn't even learn how to play it well it played for itself. Meaning once you learn to manipulate things you'd be nigh unkillable by even the best or two put together.

    With the new nerfs I'll have to evaluate things again, however. Still too many gimmicky builds currently in a game that is primarily objective based that can just sit on spots and are immensely hard to take down. Too hard. You could literally win Dex with 4-5 people if they played these specs with a healer or two just by capping and keeping flags. It does get silly.

  9. #54
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    if they are both overpowered that's called being balanced, nothing needs to be nerfed.
    I think you miss the point.

    If they are both overpowered in comparison to everything else, yes they need to be nerfed.
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  10. #55
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    Chloros always have disadvantage: they cant heal each other through veil. And we cant heal any mage dps or support with veil buff. If I want to heal them I have to stop veil heal and do only spot heal. With that cast time on nh and nt its not effective at all. Nh extreme weak compared its cast time. Talented Bloom 10 sec talented urgent care 6 sec.
    Raid with only chloros always suffer against raid with mixed healers because of it. Chloros in a raid: limited cross heal. Even if we can synth or symb ourself we have limits: synth swapping takes time (1.5 sec gcd and 5 sec cd if the enemy target swap faster all screwed) All the other healers can heal each other without restriction.
    But. I can live with this limitation, I don't mind. We cant heal each other fine for me. Just give chloros some self defensive abilities like living shell with break free and few sec immunity. Not a big deal. I don't even ask self synth, I can imagine that can cause some balance problem for example with harb subsoul, but I ask self symbiosis.
    2-4 small changes only to make chloros good in pvp.

    I would be happy to go to pts and do some testing about changes.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

  11. #56
    Plane Walker Axarion's Avatar
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    Rogue heals are broken, no way around that. Sent is oom in half a minute.

    The reason why we have so many stalemates now is the broken CC everywhere more so than stacked heals. When both teams are being debilitated 75% of the time because of broken Dom, Sab and Cab CC there is no way to dps healers.

  12. #57
    Telaran Rantank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axarion View Post
    Rogue heals are broken, no way around that. Sent is oom in half a minute.

    The reason why we have so many stalemates now is the broken CC everywhere more so than stacked heals. When both teams are being debilitated 75% of the time because of broken Dom, Sab and Cab CC there is no way to dps healers.
    This. A thousand times this. The change to the CC mechanics made a mess. It's no fun to have the control of your character taken away from you as much as is happening now. It needs to be removed, or greatly toned down. Then see what needs buffing and nerfing. But the ridiculous amount of CC in the game has turned each PVP match into a crap shoot. Whoever has the most Dom/Sab/Cab that doesn't suck wins.

  13. #58
    General of Telara Nemrud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rantank View Post
    This. A thousand times this. The change to the CC mechanics made a mess. It's no fun to have the control of your character taken away from you as much as is happening now. It needs to be removed, or greatly toned down. Then see what needs buffing and nerfing. But the ridiculous amount of CC in the game has turned each PVP match into a crap shoot. Whoever has the most Dom/Sab/Cab that doesn't suck wins.
    +1
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  14. #59
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rantank View Post
    This. A thousand times this. The change to the CC mechanics made a mess. It's no fun to have the control of your character taken away from you as much as is happening now. It needs to be removed, or greatly toned down. Then see what needs buffing and nerfing. But the ridiculous amount of CC in the game has turned each PVP match into a crap shoot. Whoever has the most Dom/Sab/Cab that doesn't suck wins.
    This, the problem arises when there are 5 healers and there is no way to CC 5 of them long enough to kill one. But if there are two healers ?? one can be shut down long enough for one to die regardless of class.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    all that would leave is clerics, who have the absolute best CDs in the game for pvp with HC, flame of life, and UT. oh and defilers have 30% links, which i think are pretty important in the utility category. the only healing soul without any major utility(if you count HC as utility, which i do), would be physician(only utility physician really has is supportive care, which makes up for it in it's raw healing power.
    I still don't see the huge utility gain for clerics over physicians. Are you talking about self-survival, which I think was the focus previously. The links are not utility on the cleric for self-survival and are 20% in pvp. You mention 3 CDs spread across 3 cleric souls, so you get one of them if you full spec.

    The HC is 40% abs and biofeedback is 25% abs with a heal.

    You can take a 15s CD AoE snare in 0 point sab or 50% speed buff in 0 point marksman.

    The resource consumption/regen is still what appears to be the biggest difference. Any comparison needs to be looked at for over-all contribution, which makes it a bit difficult.

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