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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Get rid of Vengeance and Valor

  1. #1
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    Default Get rid of Vengeance and Valor

    instead of these arbitrary stats like Hit, Toughness, Vengeance, and Valor just normalize armor through all avenues. This separation is really quite dumb, while I know everyone can still PVP and PVE the amount of grinding required to get top tier in either aspect is already redundant as hell, but to experience the game as a whole we have to grind through both avenues? That is overkill!
    Normalize stats, without these additional one's, you know, so it feels like armor actually matters. So PVE armor has some pretty awesome stats, probably to combat the increasing difficulty of t2 and t3 raids, high end pvp armor has good stats too, but nothing compared to pve armor, yet someone in the pvp armor would annihilate someone in pve armor because of veng and valor, a system implemented probably to make up for the fact that pve armor needed huge boosts for Storm Legion and beyond. It's just not necessary though, just apply a base stat to each attack or ability and that will balance out pvp, and then the bonuses to the base stat which apply to pve, then you can get rid of these dumb stats which i am sure make balance harder to achieve.
    Of course pvp armor would then have to get a hefty buff to its stats, but the separation would be gone, and the game would be more open, and easier to balance. I just don't see why these mechanics were ever thought to be a good idea, from a business standpoint sure, now players interested in both pvp and pve have to spend much more time playing, and are more likely to pay the longer they play (not a fact, just an assumption) but Trion, you surely aren't in this just for the money are you?
    jk I know you are, but update the game and get rid of these arbitrary stats anyways, the game would benefit from it greatly, and more personalization can occur for characters as well if they aren't stuck on one side or the other.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    All I read was bolster PvP gear in raids and dungeons!
    Even free cost too much now

  3. #3
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    That may be an easier fix but we would still have arbitrary stats contributing to a lack of balance in this game. Base stats for every skill is the answer, then gear can just be gear, no need to add these "equalizer" stats.

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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    ooo a normalization thread. Been awhile.


    something something something find a moba

    Would rather pve gear was best and dropped from open world raids.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 06-03-2014 at 08:07 AM.

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    Ascendant asianguywithacamera's Avatar
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    This would be the end of Meduza videos killing 22k baddies?

  6. #6
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    ooo a normalization thread. Been awhile.


    something something something find a moba

    Would rather pve gear was best and dropped from open world raids.
    With no factions, guild warfare, and alliances. Full loot on death.
    Even free cost too much now

  7. #7
    Telaran Fossen's Avatar
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    "Im a pvper and when i get to rank 90 i want to jump straight to t3 with the rank 90 gear i have because its the best you can get. I dont want to farm two sets of gear to be able to do both."
    Before storm legion came there was nothing called bolstering. So raid items would have much better stats than the pvp items but there were no valor on it. So you'd do more damage but take a ton back.
    Then they decided to nerf it by applying the bolstering effect so it actually makes sense to grind pvp gear to do pvp. But because of some lazy people posts like these occur where they want to remove gear and make only one set for both.
    This is an mmorpg, you are not supposed to get everything given to you on a silver plate remember.
    -Finally done-
    Last Dawn@Zaviel
    Puzzles are hard

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
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    Raiders would have the clear advantage. They get gear faster in general but they also get new tiers faster. It is tough to convince people to do the same scripted fight every week.

  9. #9
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    Totally misguided response by yourself, you can still separate pvp gear and pve gear, but do it by stats that are inherent to the gear and your character itself. PVP gear could have more resists in it, or increase an individual stat in it to make PVP gear progression desirable in the face of getting rid of these ridiculous stats like hit and veng. Where you came up with this post makes me feel entitled is beyond me, I just don't like stupid systems implemented into games. Besides why should gear have anything to do with where you can play? Shouldn't skill dictate what you are able to do? or would the pve baddies be mad that we farm t3 better

  10. #10
    Ascendant
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    Back in pre-SL Rift days, there was a time where PvP gear was amazing in PvE (HK progression... hell, you could argue CQ Trinket throughout since its conception). Likewise, high end PvE gear used to stomp PvP in some respects (relic weapons, 4 piece sets for certain jobs...) - PvP players didn't feel like they should have to do extensive amounts of PvE to be competitive, nor vice versa - and I agree with them.
    Raenryong@Deepwood R69 ~ Amathys@Zaviel (Rogue)
    Serefina@Deepwood R66 ~ Solserefina@Zaviel (Warrior)
    Seraena@Deepwood R80 ~ Seraena@Zaviel R70 (Cleric)
    Avalonia@Deepwood R66 ~ Avalonia@Zaviel (Mage)
    <Dauntless> ~ <Excellence>

  11. #11
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    I disagree, this would disrupt the balance Trion is trying to achieve by separating pvp and pve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  12. #12
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    They wouldn't have to do pve to stay competitive, this is not a thread about how this game works, it is a thread about how it should work. gear progression should not be something you are forced to do through pve or pvp if you don't want to do it, I agree with that. I am aware these stats were introduced to help balance out the high boosts to stats armor needed for storm legion and beyond. I understand not everyone wants to pve, and not everyone wants to pvp, so now stay focused on the thread not making counter inductive arguments. So now, gear progression can stay separate, most other games do this fine, with top end pvp gear and pve gear being comparable, easy enough, and problem solved as far as progression and not wanting to do one or the other . However, the main concern with this thread is how complicated and bad they have made their system which is why I want them to simplify down to all armor being normalized across the board, and using a system of base damage and heals in abilities, then balance will be easier to achieve, and the game is more open to all.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquafinn View Post
    They wouldn't have to do pve to stay competitive, this is not a thread about how this game works, it is a thread about how it should work. gear progression should not be something you are forced to do through pve or pvp if you don't want to do it, I agree with that. I am aware these stats were introduced to help balance out the high boosts to stats armor needed for storm legion and beyond. I understand not everyone wants to pve, and not everyone wants to pvp, so now stay focused on the thread not making counter inductive arguments. So now, gear progression can stay separate, most other games do this fine, with top end pvp gear and pve gear being comparable, easy enough, and problem solved as far as progression and not wanting to do one or the other . However, the main concern with this thread is how complicated and bad they have made their system which is why I want them to simplify down to all armor being normalized across the board, and using a system of base damage and heals in abilities, then balance will be easier to achieve, and the game is more open to all.
    No, you're trying to turn Rift into Guildwars? all MMO's have separate gear acquisition based on a particular avenue of approach, whether it be from pve or pvp. Normalization is for MOBA's, not MMO's! No one in Rift has to pve in order to be competitive in Rift pvp, where do you get that from?
    Last edited by Gunzip; 06-03-2014 at 09:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  14. #14
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    Gunzip someone ahead of your post had stated that pve gear, stat wise is superior, so without veng and valor they would have to pve to get the best gear, I was responding to that. Point is balance would have been easier to achieve by making existing stats between pvp and pve gear comparable, not making new one's which they have to tweak. Again, it seems the focus is too much on what the game is rather than what it could be. As for the separate avenues of approach, I've reiterated that so many times, can still exist without arbitrary stats made up to separate them.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    all MMO's have separate gear acquisition based on a particular avenue of approach, whether it be from pve or pvp
    My template for a Paladin in DAOC disagrees...
    Even free cost too much now

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