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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Get rid of Vengeance and Valor

  1. #16
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    PvErs expect large damage increase every tier. PvPers expect damage vs health be faily constant. Trion has to make them both work. Only stat squish will fix it.

  2. #17
    General of Telara Nemrud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquafinn View Post
    instead of these arbitrary stats like Hit, Toughness, Vengeance, and Valor just normalize armor through all avenues. This separation is really quite dumb, while I know everyone can still PVP and PVE the amount of grinding required to get top tier in either aspect is already redundant as hell, but to experience the game as a whole we have to grind through both avenues? That is overkill!
    Normalize stats, without these additional one's, you know, so it feels like armor actually matters. So PVE armor has some pretty awesome stats, probably to combat the increasing difficulty of t2 and t3 raids, high end pvp armor has good stats too, but nothing compared to pve armor, yet someone in the pvp armor would annihilate someone in pve armor because of veng and valor, a system implemented probably to make up for the fact that pve armor needed huge boosts for Storm Legion and beyond. It's just not necessary though, just apply a base stat to each attack or ability and that will balance out pvp, and then the bonuses to the base stat which apply to pve, then you can get rid of these dumb stats which i am sure make balance harder to achieve.
    Of course pvp armor would then have to get a hefty buff to its stats, but the separation would be gone, and the game would be more open, and easier to balance. I just don't see why these mechanics were ever thought to be a good idea, from a business standpoint sure, now players interested in both pvp and pve have to spend much more time playing, and are more likely to pay the longer they play (not a fact, just an assumption) but Trion, you surely aren't in this just for the money are you?
    jk I know you are, but update the game and get rid of these arbitrary stats anyways, the game would benefit from it greatly, and more personalization can occur for characters as well if they aren't stuck on one side or the other.
    Yeah, imagine the fun PvE raiders will bring to PvP.
    Oh wait...
    Nemrud@Zaviel Imperium
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  3. #18
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemrud View Post
    Yeah, imagine the fun PvE raiders will bring to PvP.
    Oh wait...
    Well if gear was closer in terms of stats then they would either bring skill, or a lack thereof, either way more people involved in pvp seems like a plus to me

  4. #19
    General of Telara Nemrud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquafinn View Post
    Well if gear was closer in terms of stats then they would either bring skill, or a lack thereof, either way more people involved in pvp seems like a plus to me
    Please Aqua, please! We've got a player who kept marking necro pet as healer whole day today, not anymore of them please
    Nemrud@Zaviel Imperium
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  5. #20
    Telaran Aquafinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemrud View Post
    Please Aqua, please! We've got a player who kept marking necro pet as healer whole day today, not anymore of them please
    Lol, those buggers cannot go unchecked any longer, nerf necro pet!

  6. #21
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    pve t3 raid relic weapons /thread

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquafinn View Post
    They wouldn't have to do pve to stay competitive, this is not a thread about how this game works, it is a thread about how it should work. gear progression should not be something you are forced to do through pve or pvp if you don't want to do it, I agree with that. I am aware these stats were introduced to help balance out the high boosts to stats armor needed for storm legion and beyond. I understand not everyone wants to pve, and not everyone wants to pvp, so now stay focused on the thread not making counter inductive arguments. So now, gear progression can stay separate, most other games do this fine, with top end pvp gear and pve gear being comparable, easy enough, and problem solved as far as progression and not wanting to do one or the other . However, the main concern with this thread is how complicated and bad they have made their system which is why I want them to simplify down to all armor being normalized across the board, and using a system of base damage and heals in abilities, then balance will be easier to achieve, and the game is more open to all.
    Or, when can our PvP gear have hit? If you want to reserve it for Myrmidon gear to have at the very least tier 1 raid hit, so be it ... but when?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generic Player View Post
    Or, when can our PvP gear have hit? If you want to reserve it for Myrmidon gear to have at the very least tier 1 raid hit, so be it ... but when?
    Tl:dr it can't currently

    Longer: hit bypasses defensive stats, in order to grant more hit to pvp gear, hit needs to be normalized or removed while in pvp, otherwise every dodge/parry talent or cooldown might as well be removed.

  9. #24
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Longer: hit bypasses defensive stats, in order to grant more hit to pvp gear, hit needs to be normalized or removed while in pvp, otherwise every dodge/parry talent or cooldown might as well be removed.
    Hmmm, would giving pvp gear an equal amount of dodge and parry stat to mitigate the additional hit gain work?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly Mak View Post
    Hmmm, would giving pvp gear an equal amount of dodge and parry stat to mitigate the additional hit gain work?
    I imagine programmatically its probably easier to set hit rating = 0 in pvp combat than it is to add a couple hundred parry or dodge to every gear peice, especially since certain specs would need only parry on their gear to make up for lost talents, and others only dodge, some both.

  11. #26
    Champion of Telara Stihl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly Mak View Post
    Hmmm, would giving pvp gear an equal amount of dodge and parry stat to mitigate the additional hit gain work?
    T1 raids require 400 hit, which is a 160% increased chance to hit your target. So without adjustments to the scaling and mechanics, no.

  12. #27
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    Bad Idea. I like the fact it is separated. I love the fact that people go to WFs with their uber PVE gear and I can stomp them with my Myrmidon gear.

  13. #28
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    I for one and tired of carrying around 3 sets of gear. 1/3rd of my bag slots are devoted to pve dps, pve tank, and pvp gear. Thats over 28 slots just for gear. Sure i could spend money for more bags slots but really $10 per new slot seems unreasonable, maybe implement platinum exchange for more bag slots. Still though thats a lot of gear to be carrying around.

  14. #29
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    Going along with the OPs idea would involve not just normalizing gear but major changes to the base mechanics of PvE encounters and/or PvP mechanics. Ergo it is not going to happen.

    A little history though as to how this came about. Back in the 2010 betas they introduced toughness gear first. This makes sense because it allows you to make tanks "tanky" without HUGE amounts of armor, resists and endurance slapped on (to deal with Crit damage) that would cause major mudflation and a few other issues. At this time they could have decided "okay we will have this gear also purchased with PvP currenc" and then designed PvP mechanics around it (example not nerf BD side steps in PvP to address lower hit ratings on PvP weapons.)

    What happened when toughness gear was introduced but no PvP gear was introduced? The same day toughness gear was simply announced threads of " where is my PvP gear" started. Why because they did not want some PvE "carebear" being able to hop into PvP with the same level of gear when they did not "put in the time" in PvP. If you want to blame anyone for this issue blame some of your fellow PvPers because they asked for it.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  15. #30
    Champion of Telara Arcshayde's Avatar
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    What actually happened was PvE'ers flooded wf's just to get t6 pvp gear and then used that gear to plow through HK much, much faster than Trion wanted them to. Since valor was only 30-40% dmg mitigation back then, you could just walk into wf's with completely op'd pve weapons/proc's and ruin pvp balance for everyone else.

    The blame rests squarely on the devs for their naivety. Players, pve or pvp, will always take the path of least resistance to the best gear.

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