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Thread: Physician

  1. #1
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    Default Physician

    It isn't that Physician is innately broken in terms of its output.
    The issue is actually the pool of energy that it possesses.

    Sick a dominator on a Cleric, the dominator can very easily stress the Cleric's pool of mana and reduce it to the point that healing is much more difficult. They can check a powerful healer such as Defiler.

    Physician? You really cannot do such a thing.
    Transference is a great tool but it does have a rather lengthy cooldown, and even then a Physician has a way of instantly countering the effect of Transference.

    AP itself is very useful as well, but its when you utilize AP on top of other abilities such as mana Wrench that allows a Dominator to check a healer.

    Physician? It is affected by AP, but the inability to combine AP with Mana wrench does not really help.


    At this point, thebest way to really counter a Physician's energy pool is through a combination o f TI, Mana wrench and HP.
    Unfortunately the former two don't have as great an effect as they would a Cleric, and unlike a Cleric, a Physician has access to 3 cleanses.
    Allowing you to effectively mitigate the strength of a Dominator.
    This means that you have to rely upon raw DPS to rip through a Physician, and while this isn't at all a bad thing, it does mean that countering a Physician is done more easily by simply killing everyone else around the Physician, rather than disabling/killing the Physician themselves.

    As such, my proposal would be to increase the energy pool of a Physician, then adjust the cost/regen of a Physician. This would make it easier for energy draining souls to mitigate the effectiveness of a Physician, while also not hindering its capability within PvE sphere.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    ... it does mean that countering a Physician is done more easily by simply killing everyone else around the Physician, rather than disabling/killing the Physician themselves.
    +1 though 'easily' is used losesly since odds are he's hoping around among other faceroll aoe heals, or dps, all the while you already lost the objective.

    They did well with tactician back when they kind of cared about their work (remember SL wasn't quite out, though it was for SL I know).

    It's like this time around they just kinda gave up on thinking of ways of making their classplay interesting.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 05-26-2014 at 07:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    It isn't that Physician is innately broken in terms of its output.
    The issue is actually the pool of energy that it possesses.

    Sick a dominator on a Cleric, the dominator can very easily stress the Cleric's pool of mana and reduce it to the point that healing is much more difficult. They can check a powerful healer such as Defiler.

    Physician? You really cannot do such a thing.
    Transference is a great tool but it does have a rather lengthy cooldown, and even then a Physician has a way of instantly countering the effect of Transference.

    AP itself is very useful as well, but its when you utilize AP on top of other abilities such as mana Wrench that allows a Dominator to check a healer.

    Physician? It is affected by AP, but the inability to combine AP with Mana wrench does not really help.


    At this point, thebest way to really counter a Physician's energy pool is through a combination o f TI, Mana wrench and HP.
    Unfortunately the former two don't have as great an effect as they would a Cleric, and unlike a Cleric, a Physician has access to 3 cleanses.
    Allowing you to effectively mitigate the strength of a Dominator.
    This means that you have to rely upon raw DPS to rip through a Physician, and while this isn't at all a bad thing, it does mean that countering a Physician is done more easily by simply killing everyone else around the Physician, rather than disabling/killing the Physician themselves.

    As such, my proposal would be to increase the energy pool of a Physician, then adjust the cost/regen of a Physician. This would make it easier for energy draining souls to mitigate the effectiveness of a Physician, while also not hindering its capability within PvE sphere.
    Maybe if you argued that the regeneration of their energy is too high or their ability cost are too low you would have a firmer argument. However, using abilities that a cleric can just as easily remove or LoS as a rogue, you argument is shallow. A rogue and cleric both can cleanse themselves, in fact one cleric soul can remove all debuffs in a single spell. Also, your mana wrench is just as easy for a cleric to LoS as it is for a rogue. So, if you continue down your line of argument your are only going to arrive at which player pays attention to what debuffs are or are not on them. Thus, not making your statements about souls but rather player ability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post
    Maybe if you argued that the regeneration of their energy is too high or their ability cost are too low you would have a firmer argument. However, using abilities that a cleric can just as easily remove or LoS as a rogue, you argument is shallow. A rogue and cleric both can cleanse themselves, in fact one cleric soul can remove all debuffs in a single spell. Also, your mana wrench is just as easy for a cleric to LoS as it is for a rogue. So, if you continue down your line of argument your are only going to arrive at which player pays attention to what debuffs are or are not on them. Thus, not making your statements about souls but rather player ability.
    That is the argument Tohrid, that the energy regeneration is too high or the ability cost is too law.
    When you starve a Cleric, it takes him a significantly higher amount of time to regenerate what he has lost in comparison to a Rogue.

    If a Dominator applies Mana wrench to a Cleric, even if it is LoS'ed after two ticks, that means the Cleric has to STOP healing in order to regenerate the mana lost.
    Physician does not have to stop at all, thereby mitigating the effectiveness of a Dominator's abilities.

    While TI and MB remove a large portion of that energy pool relative to a Cleric's mana pool, that energy is quickly recovered and countered by adrenaline shot.
    On top of this, Purifier is the ONLY healer soul that has access to a regular full cleanse, and they have weaknesses that Sentinel/Defiler do not possess and even then, you can still starve them.

    Your abilities are ever more effective on them.

    Cleanse soul is universal, provides immunity for 1 second, so that means you are delayed in applying the next debuff and compounded with the behavior of a Physician's energy pool becomes that much more effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    Obviously 100 energy isn't as good as 17000 mana, physician should be buffed if anything.

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    Are the aoe heals smart heals? Should definitely be all smart heals too if they aren't.

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    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    That is the argument Tohrid, that the energy regeneration is too high or the ability cost is too law.
    When you starve a Cleric, it takes him a significantly higher amount of time to regenerate what he has lost in comparison to a Rogue.

    If a Dominator applies Mana wrench to a Cleric, even if it is LoS'ed after two ticks, that means the Cleric has to STOP healing in order to regenerate the mana lost.
    Physician does not have to stop at all, thereby mitigating the effectiveness of a Dominator's abilities.

    While TI and MB remove a large portion of that energy pool relative to a Cleric's mana pool, that energy is quickly recovered and countered by adrenaline shot.
    On top of this, Purifier is the ONLY healer soul that has access to a regular full cleanse, and they have weaknesses that Sentinel/Defiler do not possess and even then, you can still starve them.

    Your abilities are ever more effective on them.

    Cleanse soul is universal, provides immunity for 1 second, so that means you are delayed in applying the next debuff and compounded with the behavior of a Physician's energy pool becomes that much more effective.
    Ok. I have been thinking on the regeneration rate for a rogue compared to a cleric for some time this week because physician is such a hot topic. The mechanics of each class are different so one must consider how both work.

    On the one hand you're a cleric with a mana pool of 10 ' s of thousands, whereas with a rogue you only have 100 energy. A badly played toon of either class would have difficulties with a dom period, so lets agree upon the facts as they relate to a highly skilled cleric or rogue. A highly skilled individual of either class would have themselves an add on that would warn them of dom abilities and then take care of it. Neither is effected by reactive abilities such as transcendence or MB when they use a cleanse ability. I've tested it, the only reduction from a cleanse is from the cost required. So, both would have themselves cleansed of such debilitating abilities and no worse for ware and regeneration would not be a factor sense none of the reactive procced.

    What I've come to conclude on where the rogue class shines is in normal combat, where the regeneration comes into play over a long period of time compared to a cleric. Eventually at some point the cleric will have to sacrifice health to regen their mana, whereas the rogue will just keep going.

    Compound all of this with the fact that the rogue has only a 1 sec GCD. This is where the rogue has the greatest advantage. Trion may have adjusted heal numbers for this fact, or not, but what they can not adjust for with this mechanic is the ability to react faster. All cool downs come to the rogue .5 secs faster than other healing classes unless it's a OGCD ability. So cure will be going out faster.

    As for dom, if this is what you're playing, I suggest placing MB on some caster or melee that is close to your intended healer. Typically healer don't pay as much attention to them when it comes to dom abilities and leave themselves subjected to its aoes.
    Last edited by Tohrid; 05-26-2014 at 08:30 PM.

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser VolitheBear's Avatar
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    While Physician is a good, even a strong soul, personally I don't find it to be as broken as people are saying.

    In lower level PvP 20-50 healers are really strong, not just Physician, but in level 60 PvP I find that the Physician is OP only when facing a Warlord/Mrym geared Rogue, which there are plenty of and is the main reason why people complain so much about Physician.

    I'm sure that full Mrym geared Cleric/Mage/Warrior healer is not easy to kill, so why should a Rogue be?

    Truth be told energy starvation is not an issue for Physician as it was initially on PTS, and thats why it seems that they are unkillable.

    Give it some time and people will adjust to playing vs Physicians and they will only see "another healer".

    Thats just my 2cents tho.

    Regards

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    Rift Chaser Pocketzoar's Avatar
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    I think we are forgetting that we have instant mana regen abilitys useable in combat with no cooldown.


    The only time a dom is ooming a cleric to death is when the cleric is low enough health to only worry about beating feet and not spamming regens.


    As for rogues? I don't know enough about the class to theory craft or argue but I will say it seems to be the best solo healing soul in the game and its tanky as ****.

    I've killed a few as necro but only every 2mins. Since getting actuall players to focus fire is impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post

    On the one hand you're a cleric with a mana pool of 10 ' s of thousands, whereas with a rogue you only have 100 energy. A badly played toon of either class would have difficulties with a dom period, so lets agree upon the facts as they relate to a highly skilled cleric or rogue. A highly skilled individual of either class would have themselves an add on that would warn them of dom abilities and then take care of it. Neither is effected by reactive abilities such as transcendence or MB when they use a cleanse ability. I've tested it, the only reduction from a cleanse is from the cost required. So, both would have themselves cleansed of such debilitating abilities and no worse for ware and regeneration would not be a factor sense none of the reactive procced.
    Well firstly we should never, ever consider low level play. We consider excellent gameplay, so we assume premades.

    Secondly, as to the core of your argument, this isn't true at all in reality.

    A well played Dom is always going to mask TI/MB/Transference behind haunting Pain and Electrify stacks. This then ensures the following can be done.

    Apply TI to the Cleric and proceed to use Mana Wrench. At the same time DPS would be attacking him, placing him in a situation that is essentially a catch 22.
    He either heals and drains his mana on top of the Wrench, or he doesn't heal and risk dying, or he doesn't heal the other healer/DPS that is being focused down.
    On top of that there is Priest's Lament which will also interrupt/silence him anytime he uses a beneficial effective passive or not.

    Now substitute it with a Physician.

    You apply Haunting Pain, TI, proceed to wrench as you would a Cleric. He is in a catch twenty except for the fact that his energy regens faster than you wrench it. This energy regen also occurs passively to a much greater degree relative to the Cleric.
    On top of that, he has access to cleanse soul, and while he is penalzed for healing with TI up, energy regen is approximately 27 per second so there is only a loss of 3 energy when you consider it. 12 with mana wrench but this is made up for instantly with 1 second of doing nothing.

    A Cleric? He must channel a mana regen ability which is easily interrupted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post

    What I've come to conclude on where the rogue class shines is in normal combat, where the regeneration comes into play over a long period of time compared to a cleric. Eventually at some point the cleric will have to sacrifice health to regen their mana, whereas the rogue will just keep going.
    Only Defiler sacrifices HP for mana and they starve very, very fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post

    As for dom, if this is what you're playing, I suggest placing MB on some caster or melee that is close to your intended healer. Typically healer don't pay as much attention to them when it comes to dom abilities and leave themselves subjected to its aoes.
    MB is intended to hit everyone, you are thinking of TI whch is single target.
    In which case, you want to apply it accordingly, typically to the healer because they will often have no choice but to proc it and in turn, starve everyone around them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pocketzoar View Post
    I think we are forgetting that we have instant mana regen abilitys useable in combat with no cooldown.
    No one forgot it, its within my OP.

    Mana wrench removes 5.5% of your mana each tick.
    Mana recovery channels restore 5% each tick.

    You can also interrupt mana recovery channels except for Sentinel and Defiler.
    Sentinel's roots them and defiler's removes 5% of their maximum HP each time they use it.

    While it takes longer for a dom to drain a Cleric, they can keep them drained and pressured..
    Not so with a Rogue as their is no con to their regeneration.
    Last edited by Katosu; 05-26-2014 at 08:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    Well firstly we should never, ever consider low level play. We consider excellent gameplay, so we assume premades.

    Secondly, as to the core of your argument, this isn't true at all in reality.

    A well played Dom is always going to mask TI/MB/Transference behind haunting Pain and Electrify stacks. This then ensures the following can be done.

    Apply TI to the Cleric and proceed to use Mana Wrench. At the same time DPS would be attacking him, placing him in a situation that is essentially a catch 22.
    He either heals and drains his mana on top of the Wrench, or he doesn't heal and risk dying, or he doesn't heal the other healer/DPS that is being focused down.
    On top of that there is Priest's Lament which will also interrupt/silence him anytime he uses a beneficial effective passive or not.

    Now substitute it with a Physician.

    You apply Haunting Pain, TI, proceed to wrench as you would a Cleric. He is in a catch twenty except for the fact that his energy regens faster than you wrench it. This energy regen also occurs passively to a much greater degree relative to the Cleric.
    On top of that, he has access to cleanse soul, and while he is penalzed for healing with TI up, energy regen is approximately 27 per second so there is only a loss of 3 energy when you consider it. 12 with mana wrench but this is made up for instantly with 1 second of doing nothing.

    A Cleric? He must channel a mana regen ability which is easily interrupted.


    Only Defiler sacrifices HP for mana and they starve very, very fast.


    MB is intended to hit everyone, you are thinking of TI whch is single target.
    In which case, you want to apply it accordingly, typically to the healer because they will often have no choice but to proc it and in turn, starve everyone around them.
    Firstly, we are both getting our mana regen abilities for clerics mixed up. Sent and warden channel for mana and I believe warden as an additional one as well that will take health (I'm not at the comp atm but I know wardens have two mana regen abilities). Purifiers and Defiler both sacrifice health for mana. So that's out of the way.

    Secondly, my suggestion to place MB on someone close to the healer was lost on you. I told you to place it on someone close to the healer because that dumb player will sit there and proc the debuff over and over, landing it on the healer and thus draining their mana/energy. Do you understand that? Not being a smart ***** but I think you missed my suggestion I was trying to provide.

    You seem to be knowledgeable on dominator with your prescribed stacking of debuffs. But I must ask you. Why do you use AP on someone you are going to mana wrench? You stated this in your original post and I can't figure out why. A person only needs to LoS a mana wrench to get out of it and AP does not stop one from running.

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    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    No one forgot it, its within my OP.

    Mana wrench removes 5.5% of your mana each tick.
    Mana recovery channels restore 5% each tick.

    You can also interrupt mana recovery channels except for Sentinel and Defiler.
    Sentinel's roots them and defiler's removes 5% of their maximum HP each time they use it.

    While it takes longer for a dom to drain a Cleric, they can keep them drained and pressured..
    Not so with a Rogue as their is no con to their regeneration.
    Defiler is not a healing soul nor was physician designed around defiler. Especially since it is a known fact that physician is mostly designed after sent/puri or old school puri/sent from pre SL. Current sentinel is actually quite hard to starve as well and what about cloro? Sent is even more a beast because of its ability to refresh burst cds and aoe disables as well as the tons of utilities it has access to.

    Dom on the other hand is quite powerful as a dps disable as well. it is actually even more useful as a dps disable on many many occasions and a peeler for your own healers. Plus if you transmogrify a dps most likely the healers won't cleanse them but if they see you attacking them specifically with your debuffs you will have them spamming cleanses over and over again and throughout the match. Dom is fine where it is and it is a bit over tuned if you ask me. If they don't want to nerf sent or physician they should focus on making other classes besides mage have true counters to the existing problem because for one..most mages are derps and don't play dom or archon for purges/cleanses and two other classes can use more viable souls.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 05-26-2014 at 09:12 PM.

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    Plane Touched zasen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post

    Secondly, my suggestion to place MB on someone close to the healer was lost on you. I told you to place it on someone close to the healer because that dumb player will sit there and proc the debuff over and over, landing it on the healer and thus draining their mana/energy. Do you understand that? Not being a smart ***** but I think you missed my suggestion I was trying to provide.

    You seem to be knowledgeable on dominator with your prescribed stacking of debuffs. But I must ask you. Why do you use AP on someone you are going to mana wrench? You stated this in your original post and I can't figure out why. A person only needs to LoS a mana wrench to get out of it and AP does not stop one from running.
    no the point was lost on you. placing ti on a close by dps doesnt guarantee that the person it was placed on will 1. not simple move away 2. stop doing anything and lol at the dom 3. not be rogue and use cleanse soul.

    placing it on the cleric and masking it guarantees that he either spend time trying to cleanse the haunting pain or just keep healing though it, or stop doing anything at all.

    the simple fact is that though their own healing and a dom a cleric will go oom and spend considerable time trying to regen mana. you can keep a cleric at 0 mana for alot longer than you can get a rogue to zero energy and make it stay there.

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    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zasen View Post
    no the point was lost on you. placing ti on a close by dps doesnt guarantee that the person it was placed on will 1. not simple move away 2. stop doing anything and lol at the dom 3. not be rogue and use cleanse soul.

    placing it on the cleric and masking it guarantees that he either spend time trying to cleanse the haunting pain or just keep healing though it, or stop doing anything at all.

    the simple fact is that though their own healing and a dom a cleric will go oom and spend considerable time trying to regen mana. you can keep a cleric at 0 mana for alot longer than you can get a rogue to zero energy and make it stay there.
    Where in any of my posts did I state TI? I have been talking about MB so that it drains a healers mana/energy from someone else (whom you have placed it on) without the healer realizing where it is. Placing it on the healer only let's them know you just wasted a long CD on something they can cleanse. It's about situational awareness. If it is on the healer, then they will see it and recognize it, thus you wasting a really nice CD. However, placing it on a dumb player near the healer you are wanting to drain, gives you, the dom, an advantage because the healer must find that individual spamming themselves through 5 stacks of MB, thus landing all the procs on the healer they are near. Which do you think is going to be more advantageous to the dom?

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