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Thread: Nerfing rogues isn't the solution. Bringing back healing debuffs is

  1. #1
    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Default Nerfing rogues isn't the solution. Bringing back healing debuffs is

    Lets all face it. Trion will sell their own grandmother to make a buck at this point, including the new overpowered souls. I'm not a fan of nerfs tho, so why not some buffs instead? Bump up all the healing debuffs that potent DPS get from 10% to 20%. That's enough pressure to get the job done while soaking up some tears.

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    Rogue - The only soul with passively applied healing debuffs.


    Hm, so Rogue healers are overpowered... I know, let's make Rogue DPS the solution!!!!

  3. #3
    Plane Touched zasen's Avatar
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    my elegant solution is to just give them mana bars in their healing soul like all other healers, that goes for warriors as well.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    The soul itself isn't really overpowered, it's Rogues that are.

    If a cleric had access to Physician with mana and a 1.5s GCD it would lose an immense amount of this perceived power.

    This to me is why a lot of the competing DPS souls have raised their bar to nearly rogue mechanics - plentiful access to mana (if applies) and talents that reduce the GCD to 1s. It really wouldn't surprise me if we see clerics get revamped someday and healing souls giving the chance to get 1s GCD's. Or hell, they may just equalize it one day.

    I think it spelled future balance issues. It frankly is beyond me why, not only 2 callings were given this seemingly endless pool of energy instead of mana that can bottom out and stay that way but, also that 1 out of 4 calling inherently were given a lower GCD. To me when the premise began sort of uneven, it doesn't seem strange for things applied after the fact to be favored towards the one premised to be better.

    Reducing its power is tricky because you would basically be finding the middle ground between what isn't too powerful in a viable healing soul to give to a calling who, at its core, has a 1s GCD and the fastest energy regen. I think it is also ironic that, of all the Rogue souls, the one who literally has the least power issues is Physician. Power mostly remains fine but the ability is there for crutch moments. But, power gets scarier on MM, Ranger, Bard (w/o passive energy conservation buff), NB. Sin and BD do well because Sin procs energy and its heal is a burst of energy. BD gains energy with every finisher making them virtually close to no negligible cost. Tact is by far the worst with energy as it's soul even has a built in way to undo the detriment the soul does to your energy pool. So again...ironic, the rogue healing soul is pretty much the 1 of the 10 souls who has the littlest energy issues.

    Unless you subspec for extra breaks though CC still destroys a physician. And their best saves can be slapped by an interrupt. Like I say, if you gave this soul to clerics with their mechanics dictating it, it would probably be 3rd or 4th choice. However, if you gave the Cleric healing souls to Rogues with their mechanics, the souls would be beyond godly. So that is why it's not just so simple as "zomg nerf physician". If you don't want to be sloppy with the game and balance itself, I am not sure where you would start with adjustments. I do not claim to have answers, nor am I saying the current Physician will probably go 100% unadjusted. But it is being simplified too much by the masses of banter on here about it. It's a very powerful machine under the mechanics of a Rogue but that doesn't mean there are not powerful DPS machines who when executed right can push a physician to death or spam healing themselves. I will admit I have not seen 1 DPS who can take me out. I think 2 good DPS can...2 good DPS can certainly cause me to have to heal myself full time I'd say. But it isn't often their raw DPS that takes me out, it is the usage of quality CC in a spec with little breaks. Yes, you can spec an extra break, but your raw healing goes down *alot* and you lose a couple abilities in of themselves, including a massive heal finisher. In 61 spec, said finisher I have seen crit as high as 26k (with a temp buff up that increases it by 50% by 10s). That trade off is your choice.

    I'd rather see key abilities (like a solid heal debuff) in more exclusive spots/higher up in souls, rather than something everyone can subspec to. Guess I am looking towards soul individuality here. An assassin with 41pts to grab the debilitating poison can be quite a nightmare on mana based healers. Not many other rogue souls have that type of threat, and it would be corny of debilitating poison was easy to access for lots of DPS souls. In a small scale fight, many clerics could live forever again very good Rogue dps souls, but they do not debilitate (literally) enough to break the cleric. I wouldn't mind a soul having more ability to break the Rogue healer, just not some corny thing every DPS arrangement can grab. However, a couple of good DPS with the right CC will pose a good threat to Physicians.
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    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser
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    lol.

    OP didn't play during lingering wounds.

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    General of Telara littlepoit's Avatar
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    or we can just fix the rogue soul and move on.

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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motoboat View Post
    lol.

    OP didn't play during lingering wounds.
    the only thing that was a problem with lingering wounds was that it couldn't be cleansed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the only thing that was a problem with lingering wounds was that it couldn't be cleansed.
    Thank you, a semblance of sanity for once. I did play during lingering wounds... as a Puri/Sent/Ward no less because I was having fun tanking 8 people at once. When champions would spam that shizz with AoEs sure it put pressure on me but I didn't feel it was OP. With all the nobs Trion has to dial and tune for the sake of PvE, I feel healing debuffs would be the easiest ones to tweak.

    When EVERYONE can be a healer now, EVERYONE needs access to a potent healing debuff in at least one tree. 10% Doesn't cut it anymore. It's outdated and the game has moved on. So should healing debuffs.

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    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    There is a lingering wounds in the game. Now the question is.....does the class that has it want to play that soul??

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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post
    There is a lingering wounds in the game. Now the question is.....does the class that has it want to play that soul??
    SNAP! That was some deep sshizt bro.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched zasen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    the only thing that was a problem with lingering wounds was that it couldn't be cleansed.
    its been a while but im pretty sure that it being passive and AOE was the bigger issue. i remember being on dex on the little elevated area and getting hit by it while a warrior fought someone below me.

    the fact that it also affected pots was super annoying.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    when reaver gets altered to DPS sometime before 1.3, I hope it keeps the 15% heal debuff corrosion finisher.
    out going heal debuff, that spreads the debuff to enemy players near the infected target.
    pew pew a target, toss the debuff on him, then let him run back to his healers and try to hide behind them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zasen View Post
    its been a while but im pretty sure that it being passive and AOE was the bigger issue. i remember being on dex on the little elevated area and getting hit by it while a warrior fought someone below me.

    the fact that it also affected pots was super annoying.
    it was a proc.
    if the warrior used an aoe and you got hit, it had the potential to proc on you. but you had to be hit by the aoe ability first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    "don't nerf our OP healing spec, give us back our OP healing debuffs!"

    yeah okay. fan out spam was truly the high-point of rift gameplay

  15. #15
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    I remember clearly they altered valor to make lingering wound NOT A REQUIREMENT for dealing with stacked healers in SL. So according to Trion LW wasn't only necessary but it was globalized and also buffed. Heals are reduced much more in SL than it was back post SL and it is still a bit silly at the moment.

    What they need to do is nerf specific souls and balance all the healing souls.

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