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Thread: Warriors are still broken - how about a hot fix for them?

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Warriors are still broken - how about a hot fix for them?

    Here is more constructive feedback.

    A character with 40,000 hp should not have the potential to hit other characters with 25,000-32,000 hp for 6,000+ damage with 3 different abilities, and thereafter for 3,000 odd with other abilities.

    I will take an example, and I have the screen shots to back this up, but can't be bothered to post them at this time, but if there is a strong denial that this is an accurate representation I will post them.

    Warrior Max Hits

    6,616 - King of the Hill
    6,512 - Decisive Strike
    6,166 - Breaking Blow
    3,850 - Piercing Thrust
    3,411 - Empowering Strike
    3,074 - A Quick Death
    2,432 - Clear the Breach

    Total damage potential = 32,061

    Some might deem this unfair, though I do not, this is the potential damage a warrior can do, it is a collection of their max hits.

    Warrior Average Hits

    3,534 - King of the Hill
    3,547 - Decisive Strike
    4,177 - Breaking Blow
    2,052 - Piercing Thrust
    3,411 - Empowering Strike
    1,895 - A Quick Death
    974 - Clear the Breach

    Total Average Damage = 19,590

    So in just 7 hits, given that not one of those abilities hit for the max and every single hit was "average" the warrior has the potential to take 80% of a "Glass Cannons" hp.

    Conversely,

    Marksman Average Hits

    3,667 - Deadeye Shot
    1,327 - Hasted Shot
    1,553 - Empowered Shot
    641 - Swift Shot
    2,410 - 482 - Rapid Fire Shot ****
    5,300 - 1,060 - Strafe***

    These are the average hits for a MM (including hits against other characters that are not Warriors). You will note that Strafe and Rapid Fire Shot are combined average hits since they hit many times.

    Total average damage - 14,898

    Considerably less than the warrior; and somewhat bizarre given that the warrior has 40,000 hp.

    Please look into this Trion.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker
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    I do agree that if warriors are going to have as much dmg output as they do right now, their dps spec souls need their buffs changed so that it nerfs hps and armor to be more in line with other dps souls/callings.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Uesugi's Avatar
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    hahahah, you're counting max hits, on a class that has 1.5 sec GCD to a Marksman who has 1.0 sec.

    Aside from that ranger can do 2x9k crits with twin shot. So 18k thx with 1 sec gcd.

    Stop spaming about warriors you useless person, we're all sick of it.

    Trion should look into the fact that you're able to post, and fix it.
    <Barry McGuigan>
    Borivoje - Warrior R90
    Kutalion - Rogue R92
    Uesugi - Cleric R60

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    The math may be wrong; however, he's not wrong that a good warrior is currently a superhero in warfronts.

    I know that if we (hypothetically) had the best pvp warrior in the game in an arena with the best pvp rogue in the game ...I'd be betting on the warrior. Even if it was 3v3, with the warrior and rogue each getting their choice of heals and support ...I'd still bet on the warrior

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Uesugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelorean View Post
    The math may be wrong; however, he's not wrong that a good warrior is currently a superhero in warfronts.

    I know that if we (hypothetically) had the best pvp warrior in the game in an arena with the best pvp rogue in the game ...I'd be betting on the warrior. Even if it was 3v3, with the warrior and rogue each getting their choice of heals and support ...I'd still bet on the warrior
    If you were even tracking competitive pvp, ranked arenas and everything you'd know that warrior is only played as beastmaster due to sleep that isnt cleansable. Rogue is superior in every other aspect.
    <Barry McGuigan>
    Borivoje - Warrior R90
    Kutalion - Rogue R92
    Uesugi - Cleric R60

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    seriously this again! drakanish you aren't even max rank. and you are a terrible player I got a screenshot of you 1/0 while I was 15/1.

    maybe you should ask trion to buff you as it's clearly a l2p issue as I was watching you closely as you was on my team. 99% of rogues don't have problems with warriors but you some how do?

  7. #7
    Plane Walker
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    Again, the answer is, you suck.

    I reply.

    Yes, and does that change the maths?

    No.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelorean View Post
    The math may be wrong; however, he's not wrong that a good warrior is currently a superhero in warfronts.

    I know that if we (hypothetically) had the best pvp warrior in the game in an arena with the best pvp rogue in the game ...I'd be betting on the warrior. Even if it was 3v3, with the warrior and rogue each getting their choice of heals and support ...I'd still bet on the warrior
    I would argue that the maths is not wrong, since I have not parsed a time.

    Even taking that into consideration the 1.5 GCD, bearing in mind that we assume that each ability can be used in a particular rotation so as to enable the warrior to use all 7 abilities, and not to repeat any particular ability that scores higher average hits.

    The potential damage is 19,590 over 10.5 secs, average hit from each ability as damage.

    Now, if we allow the same 10.5 secs, i.e. 10 GCDs for the rogue, an we use just the best available abilities, ignoring those that score lower average hits as much as we can....we can include all the advantages.....for instance, Empowered Shot can be cast instantly, so we can include that in a 1 sec rotation, and Deadeye shot can be cast on the 10 sec mark, and despite the fact that it doesn't fire 1.5 secs, we will include it anyway.

    Here we have the best possible rotation for an MM, with their average damage for each.

    5,300 - Strafe 4 secs (5 combo points)
    2,410 - Rapid Shot 1 sec (Finisher)
    1,553 - Empowered Shot 1 sec (2 combo points)
    641 - Swift Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    641 - Swift Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    641 - Swift Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    3,667 - Deadeye Shot 1 sec (Finisher)

    TOTAL

    14,853

    Still considerably less than the warrior did in 10.5 secs.

    Warrior did 19,590

    The MM still has FAR less damage then the warrior, and 15,000 hp less.

    The math is not wrong.

    Unless someone can come forward and demonstrate where I am wrong?

    I am happy to adjust to what information is provided, but looking at this at the moment, it appears to me that the Warrior can do far more damage "on average" than the MM, and has far more HP as well.
    Last edited by Drakanish; 05-10-2014 at 05:21 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker
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    As to ranger and their 9k Twin Shot crits..

    Max Hits

    4,203 Twin Shot
    2,219 Shadow Fire
    1,278 Quick Shot
    1,270 Act Shot

    Average Hits

    2,071 Twin Shot
    1,737 Shadow Fire
    661 Quick Shot
    670 Act Shot

    I specifically reset my meter so that bestial fury was up for a 5% boost.

    So if we have the same logic as above, 10.5 secs of GCD in which to make the damage. Again we use the same logic, all buffs are up, and Shadow Fire is instant cast. I will leave out bleeds because they do confuse matters somewhat, so no splinter shot, but using only the highest damaging abilities available.

    This also includes a feast.

    I will also assume that Ace Shot is active, so that you don't waste a cooldown on that ability.

    Remember, Warrior has 19,590 damage over this period of time, if we count using average hits.

    Ranger has:

    1,737 Shadow Fire 1 sec (2 Combo points)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    4,142 Twin Shot 1 sec (Finisher)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    661 Quick Shot 1 sec (1 combo point)
    4,142 Twin Shot 1 sec (Finisher)

    Let's be generous and give another finisher on the end, although that would require 11 secs.

    Total damage:

    15,309

    So slightly better than the MM, which is born out in game, I do slightly better DPS on my Ranger build than on my MM build.

    Yet still far behind Warrior in terms of damage and HP.

    Any thoughts? Where maths might be wrong?

    Does the lack of DPS AND HP make up for utility?

  10. #10
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Warriors are fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Warriors are fine.
    Maybe you are right.

    However, everyone else in comparison to them is not.

    So the choice is, boost everyone else, or lower the DPS or HP of Warriors.

    Those figures above, would be fine, if Warriors had 25k hp.

    The difference is only 4,000 over a period of 10 secs.

    I think Warriors having 4,000 damage over a 10 sec period more than other "glass cannons" is fair as those glass cannons may have more utility.

    What I don't think is fair is the 4,000 damage difference and the 15,000 hp difference. That is an advantage that is unfair.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched RainDogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakanish View Post
    Maybe you are right.

    However, everyone else in comparison to them is not.

    So the choice is, boost everyone else, or lower the DPS or HP of Warriors.

    Those figures above, would be fine, if Warriors had 25k hp.

    The difference is only 4,000 over a period of 10 secs.

    I think Warriors having 4,000 damage over a 10 sec period more than other "glass cannons" is fair as those glass cannons may have more utility.

    What I don't think is fair is the 4,000 damage difference and the 15,000 hp difference. That is an advantage that is unfair.
    Since you think warriors are so op would you like to trade toons permanently? Of course if it is decently geared?? I would love a rogue since they are better in every way.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakanish View Post
    Maybe you are right.

    However, everyone else in comparison to them is not.

    So the choice is, boost everyone else, or lower the DPS or HP of Warriors.

    Those figures above, would be fine, if Warriors had 25k hp.

    The difference is only 4,000 over a period of 10 secs.

    I think Warriors having 4,000 damage over a 10 sec period more than other "glass cannons" is fair as those glass cannons may have more utility.

    What I don't think is fair is the 4,000 damage difference and the 15,000 hp difference. That is an advantage that is unfair.
    I can out dps any warrior on my rogue main in any pvp setting, mostly in either 61 Nightblade, or 61 Assassin, heck, even 61 Bladedancer. Why do you think warriors have some kind of special powers that no one else has? I'm more inclined to believe most people are just inexperienced and not geared/efficient at their toons. Warriors are not head and heels over anyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  14. #14
    Plane Touched Meliannia's Avatar
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    don't forget tho,
    warriors are melee
    toe to toe, they front line in wfs they taking majority of the dmg and have to get in close to ppl to DO that dmg

    You ranged rogues can just stand at the back with no threat on u at all, no pressure just spewing out non returned damage, nursing a semi when u pop some poor guy form 200 yards who doesn't even see you
    warriors lead the charge heroically running the risk of death, we are VERY visible and in it up to our necks.

    ranged just cowards at back no pressure or threat on them whatsoever, so u have a lovely life at the back behind whole wf teammates, aye u may do less dmg but u stay alive so long and dish out non-stop pain

    Spin on.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I can out dps any warrior on my rogue main in any pvp setting, mostly in either 61 Nightblade, or 61 Assassin, heck, even 61 Bladedancer. Why do you think warriors have some kind of special powers that no one else has? I'm more inclined to believe most people are just inexperienced and not geared/efficient at their toons. Warriors are not head and heels over anyone else.
    The fact is that they are head and shoulders above everyone else.

    Sorry Mel, I know what you are saying, but that doesn't justify the HP AND the DPS.

    Have the DPS, be a glass cannon like everyone else.

    OR

    Have the HP and be the frontline.

    Having both is an imbalance.

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