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Thread: My feedback on how to improve current PvP itemization.

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    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Default My feedback on how to improve current PvP itemization.

    I want to start out by saying I like the chest concept. To simply put, I enjoy the result of everyone not having utterly promised loot and people having a variety of choice gear setups. Diversity makes an MMO fun and never since 2011 have I actually enjoyed inspecting fellow players in Rift. I just want to make suggestions to the new plate of Pvp itemization we have been handed and maybe other current stuff. I also think this can help some aspects of perceived balance.

    1. Equalize items in WL boxes. By this I mean, perhaps lessen the drop rate of getting a pure item and keep items to key desireable ones. Ie. ones with complete stats and high level stats. Like, right now, a Rogue can loot the same AP essence without STR, with STR/slightly higher AP, or even with higher base dex, then higher AP/Veng. In my eyes, this should be consolidated to one solid essence of that family type in the lesser category. It should be the utmost desired AP essence, and all the inferior yet equal intended essences can be nixed. Adjust rarity of items as needed or convert current items as needed. The same goes with every item though, I get that we can now choose basically between 3 different main DPS stats for the cost of END. But, please, we are aiming for better items, I think it would make everyones world easier if it was condensed to just the utmost desired items of each statistical category (CP, AP, crit chance based items). We have diversity, we don't need excessive complexity and foul choices. This would still provide a lot of diversity and choices even if condensed to the more desired items, and tossed the silly items with less dex and void of STR etc stuff. I guess to sum this up, if these boxes drop good versions of PvP boots. It should drop 3 kinds of boots, the best stat make-ups of PvP boots with the 3 various DPS stats (cp, crit, ap). And if I get lucky to get those, then at least I got one worth keeping. I still have to land the 1 in 3 stats I particularly want on top of landing the item. Feels fair.

    2. Dream orbs in the way they work are whack. They make the rich richer. Why does relic gear have a chance to randomize better stats than purple gear? That is the recipe for snowball power gains, when aspects meant to make you 'rich' make the rich richer in comparison to others gaining equal things. I would like to say I think dream orbs too should be condensed into categories of desired stats. Ie. it can be random but simply provide the best options for a) pure stat b), stat + end, c) stat + ap/sp d) End. There does not need to be variance between the levels of those 4 categories. Furthermore, I do not think more powerful gear should be rewarded by proxy with higher granted stats. This is salt in the wound and, as I said, recipe for stuff off balance. In terms of PvP, sometimes the disparity in quality a relic item gets for a dream orb is brushing up along side the disparity you got for upgrading the relic item to begin with. Rich richer and poor poorer. So to summarize this concept. I get you guys want randomized chance of stats. But perhaps for balance and consistency purposes, nix the fact that different tier gear gets different base stats, then nix the variance of stat provided from each random category. This will provide players with much more equal runes and in turn make them feel they are on more equal grounds, not disadvantages due to luck and lack of funds.

    3. Where did the other gear go from my 2 earlier ideas? Use the daily blue reward chests as sort of blue quality PvP boxes. Make the base drop the typical blue PvE item. Make a random and smaller chance to drop the inferior loot I mentioned. Perhaps, move all that gear with only 1 main stat and dramatically lower END/DPS stats into these boxes with a solid RNG. That way nobody getting daily boxes is getting superior/insane gear, but it is a chance to get their foot in faster. Of course, if you deck out in this type of gear, you will be at significant stat disadvantage. But I think a small chance to provide 10% mount speed/run speed or 100 veng consumables (opposed to WL ones) and the lowest of quality gear you saw come from the new PvP boxes (which frankly isn't terrible in the grand scheme) in the main daily boxes will give more room to focus more on quality coming from the main PvP boxes. I think there should still be a chance to get just get blue loot because A) it does sell and have uses if you want PvE gear and B) the things I mentioned should be locked behind solid RNG still.

    That would cover more equalization and balance among stats and obtaining gear for PvP from boxes and as well as putting runes on the gear. I think a lot of legitimate frustration comes from things like I said, boxes dropping gear but such varied styles of one type of intended design and dream orbs not only randomizing stats but having a degree of variance within each type of randomization coupled with a power that grows simply based on gear quality (which like dominoes) is based on your luck in a sense (or how many lock boxes with DIS's you can buy).

    I hope the devs consider this because I think it is a good idea - or anything close to it . But I think they went overboard on the whole stat variance thing. I think varied gear was enough and would have been appreciated, but varied gear that in of itself comes with multitudes of variation is just too much. If all that could somehow be adjusted I think you would have a much cleaner system and product of distribution. I hope I covered all bases but, I think if you read this you should see what I am getting at in general.
    Last edited by Violacea; 05-03-2014 at 07:05 AM.
    New round up of some high rank matches
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Also, the last nerf of PvP box trinkets took away a great deal of their desirability. It would be nice if now that they are mechanically in tune, if the devs could look at individual adjustments to the PvP trinkets from boxes to perhaps raise their desire to use. Whether it be increasing the proc power (preferred) or increasing base stats (can work), I think it should be something. Maybe not all, but I know mine for example went down the drain (Warlords Firestorm). That was a pretty rad idea to have those there, but, it would now be more rad if they were desirable to wear.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

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    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    How about no gear progression through gambling at all? Dream Orbs were bad enough, going through 40+ just to get the stats you wanted, let alone the tier of those stats. Now everything else is a crapshoot, too.

    Face it: if they were inclined to give us what we want, gearing wouldn't have gotten to the place it is at all. Instead Daglar uses logic like "everybody's buying them so clearly they want them!" to justify it. How can you argue with that? It's like trying to convince someone of the nonexistence of god.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara Aveleys's Avatar
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    TLDR: F2P game wanted to make money with gear. The end.

  5. #5
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    Pvp kinda feels beyond repair at the moment. There needs to be a better matchmaking system in place than the current one. Logged on for a few games only on my rank 70 rogue and was a breeze. Same for my higher rank warrior. Until a system is in place for better players it's going to be rubbish and the new souls won't save it.

  6. #6
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    I still think they should allow the new consumables to be purchased with favor or marks. Few of them have pve counter parts so you can use those but still, would be nice to be able to buy the BIS pvp consumables instead of relying on RNG.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianto Jones View Post
    How about no gear progression through gambling at all? Dream Orbs were bad enough, going through 40+ just to get the stats you wanted, let alone the tier of those stats. Now everything else is a crapshoot, too.

    Face it: if they were inclined to give us what we want, gearing wouldn't have gotten to the place it is at all. Instead Daglar uses logic like "everybody's buying them so clearly they want them!" to justify it. How can you argue with that? It's like trying to convince someone of the nonexistence of god.
    I have no issue with RNG being a part of itemization, especially when it is the gate to the best loot. I would rather it be RNG gated than promise purchased. I don't need to regurgitate my stance on credit availability.

    The rest the replies I see are great, but I don't see how it would relate much. Credits are another argument and I won't disagree that I think money is too important to Trion right now. Matching is an entirely other discussion as well, not something I had ideas or thought towards for this thread.

    As far as purchasing the new stuff for favor or marks. I won't go into detail about why I like it, but, I will simply say I like the top notch items being gated by an easily accessible RNG system. It is no different than PvE guilds having a raid mob on farm status IMO. Never when raiding did I feel I needed loot handed to me, nor would I have liked it everyone who killed a boss just got what they want right in their hands. The vendor loot is more than good enough. I like that the box kicks it up an extra notch without being highly non-accessible. But, my argument is not to keep or not keep boxes, I think they are here to stay. But if they are going to be gates to the best loot, I would love if my considerations were considered.

    I tried to keep it realistic. I don't like random stats more than some here either, but, with something like dream orbs, it seems to be what they want to do with them. So I figure a good middle ground, instead of asking them to completely change their idea, ask them to perhaps condense the concepts of their ideas to be a little more user friendly and have more clarity. It wasn't long ago that I realized Relic gear gets better dream orb stats, I thought I was just unlucky. Anything else I am about to type can be referred to in my OP. I just think the itemization aspect of PvP can use some tweaking now that it is out there. I had to edit to add in Trinkets because I don't want those lovely things to fall off the radar so fast. I am glad I got to have a nice complimenting AoE based trinket for a week or two. But would love it back.
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Nice effort in typing this pile of text, but tbh your voice will go unheard.

    I think you have a better chance of getting where u want to go by ventilating your mouth to a death man.
    Flukeyy
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  9. #9
    Rift Chaser Pocketzoar's Avatar
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    How about add rep to the pvp dailys and reward the rep with the new pvp consumeables.


    Might even refresh some owpvp. Tbh as a pvp player, I don't bother with pvp dialys anymore. The most valuable thing from them is infinity stones, and at the daily rate it takes months to purchase anything worth while.

    I don't personally have the time to chase rifts and world bosses.
    Undeadwarrior & Zoarbot @Deepwood.
    Believe it or not Rift has an unofficial Facebook PvP alliance group .~All are welcome~

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    Ascendant Rgizil's Avatar
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    Holy paragraphs





    Srsly. TRION DON CUR
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rgizil View Post
    Holy paragraphs





    Srsly. TRION DON CUR
    I take feedback serious if I am going to do it for real .
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  12. #12
    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aveleys View Post
    TLDR: F2P game wanted to make money with gear. The end.
    And became P2W in the process...now end of story...
    "There are other aspects of the game that we want you to engage in."

    ~Daglar

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara
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    You people are really dellusional when it comes to pvp. Daglar turns a knob so you can climb back up to where you were before with randomized progression. The problem is itemization is completely broken and turning a knob inflates the viability of some specs while making others perform better which was the intended purpose.

    There are three main things to look into for pvp balance.

    1) Gear itemization and disparity
    2) Acguiring path and availability. Acceptable progression rates where top end can normalize.
    3) Individual class talent balances vs. turning up valor and nerfing healing/absorbs

    Trion doesn't recognize these aspects.

    Let us talk about number one. Gear Itemization and disparity. With introduction of relic gear we see a progression up to 2 tiers of gear. Yes the difference is as great or more so than freelancer to myrm as it is to the relic gear.

    Relic pvp should be a bonus gear with LESS stat increases than than a tier upgrade. this makes balancing through gear and gear disparity less a problem.

    #2 The path to acquire the best in slot gear is gambling, luck and exploiting. CQ is not a good avenue to place the best in slot gear. All players who play cq should actually be rewarded for spending wasted efforts and time in cq. You should be rewarded per time spent in cq with shards just like players who stay in cq get dismal rewards with marks. DIC should be able to acquire at a better pace. DIS should be doubled to 30 for weeklies and 5 each for dailies. This will put them at a reason 6 month to a year time for upgrade paths and also release the RIC grind in cq to actually benefit players who do raid as they can use those RICs for raid gear knowing that there is a reachable progression ceiling for pvp. Trions idea of crossing streams is greatly flawed in that sense. There is only so many hours in a day. If you make progression in pvp and pve both time consuming you force the player base to choose one or the other. Pre SL people geared up casually in a few months and had tons of time to dedicate to dungeons and pve raiding which is what you want your players to experience when crossing streams. They have a flawed concept of the idea.

    3) Turning a knob doesn't fix your problem, it just hides it or makes it worse. You need to adjust, change individual skills to balance pvp. It is self explanatory why valor changes could imbalance a volatile environment like pvp. A few talent changes in a few selected classes would be better than turning knobs and would lead to a more balance environment.

    Trion considers its game performance based on people playing the game even though they haven't considered the reason they stay is because of other reasons specifically more tied to player friendship, gambling addictions, and basically the carrot on the stick also bots shouldn't be counted as real players so consider 20% of your actual player base is botters, gold spammers etc.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara
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    Also, would like to add the release of content usually comes on overwhelmingly as Trion likes to wait to release content in bulk rather than intermittently and this goes back to the realization that all players can not spend hours online doing multiple grinds. For instance a new tier of progression in pvp with new raids, a new crafting type to grind and events all coming in all in one patch at the same time. This splits your playerbase as they are all trying to prioritize their time and eventually end up becoming soloist in the process.
    Last edited by Planetx; 05-04-2014 at 02:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Fik
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    OMg way to long. But I read the first part. I like item diversity too! The upgrade paths was a great idea, need more of that.

    Items in this game are very lame for pvp. PVE is a different story

    But I get the feeling it's easier to balance when items aren't affecting the balance too much.

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