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Thread: I finally see

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Default I finally see

    I decided to level up an alt finally after 3 years to just have something else to do, so if you have been wondering where I've been, that's where. Here is what I've noticed.

    In the lower levels tempest is not as bad as all the whiners here have complained about in the forums. I am currently playing a cleric and it's at lvl 50 now. It leveled from 20 to 50 all through warfronts. The first 20 levels were completed 2 years ago through world event quests.

    I see tons of players just sit still the entire match while they are being beaten on, no line of sighting, no running back to healers and the worst thing I've seen from my fellow healers in these warfronts are lack of cures. Now the last wont effect what the tempest it'self is doing to a target, but the stacking debuffs from the upcoming necros, inquis and warlocks added to a tempest burst just destroys players.

    I've played purifier the entire time since everyone seems to believe that defiler is the only way to handle tempest damage with links. The purifier's absorbs are more than enough to counter it. The only time when it is an issue is when the opposite team realizes it should focus fire. Then it's just a fight as to how long I can keep that target alive.

    I've watched these new players invent their own idea's how to win each warfront, which I think is cool, but most of the time they fail cause of course don't have the experience to see how it will fail. I've seen all kinds of specs that you would never see at lvl 60.

    A lot of the player base want to blame it all on people playing tempest, probably because of idiots they've heard whining about it in another match. By playing a cleric healer I've been able to sit back and watch the actions of these players and 95% of them do not realize that the majority of people they think is running tempest aren't. They have some mental block about these warriors that keeps them from being able to play. I really can't explain that part well, you'd just have to see it yourself.

    I was actually told today that purifier is a bad spec for healing warfronts. I was dumb founded by that they actually believed they were correct, it was a cleric informing this btw.

    I could go on for hours about what I've seen, but I've decided to just make a simple compiled observation for discussion.

    Majority of the new players are ill informed, and sometimes misinformed. These are the same people we are seeing now at level 60. These new level 60's have their own mindset on how things should be without recognizing that some of us have been at the high end of the game for years and may know some things that they don't. It's like a 9 year old arguing with a parent. Then you add to that drunk uncle Joe white knighting for them when they can't even get themselves off the kool aid. And we have the current state of pvp where no one even looks to see what could make themselves better, but rather complain about everything else but their own skill level.

    It's just a sad affair that people let their pride keep them from learning and would rather have everyone be at their level and everyone get a trophy.



    P.S. yes there are probably grammatical, spelling and syntactical errors in there. I'm just too tired and have a headache to care to edit it. Flame on.
    Last edited by Tohrid; 01-24-2014 at 08:36 AM.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Nnnxia's Avatar
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    what happened to the naked angel with iron cross avatar?

  3. #3
    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnnxia View Post
    what happened to the naked angel with iron cross avatar?
    Trion removed it

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    Rift Master Nantucket's Avatar
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    I'm leveling up a cleric. Right now, at level 55, my sentinel is devastating in warfronts. I can keep someone up through crazy burst and then reset the cooldown on all my abilities and keep myself up when they finally figure out to burst on me. I may go back to defiler at level 58 when I get the 30% link, but right now Sent is almost feeling unfair.
    Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post
    In the lower levels tempest is not as bad as all the whiners here have complained about in the forums. I am currently playing a cleric and it's at lvl 50 now. It leveled from 20 to 50 all through warfronts. The first 20 levels were completed 2 years ago through world event quests.

    I see tons of players just sit still the entire match while they are being beaten on, no line of sighting, no running back to healers and the worst thing I've seen from my fellow healers in these warfronts are lack of cures. Now the last wont effect what the tempest it'self is doing to a target, but the stacking debuffs from the upcoming necros, inquis and warlocks added to a tempest burst just destroys players.

    I've played purifier the entire time since everyone seems to believe that defiler is the only way to handle tempest damage with links. The purifier's absorbs are more than enough to counter it. The only time when it is an issue is when the opposite team realizes it should focus fire. Then it's just a fight as to how long I can keep that target alive.
    Is it fair to assume that people have to make builds and strategize around a single warrior soul though? Shouldn't that be telling in and of itself? Even if you aren't insinuating that people do this, you're still kind of referencing that it can be countered by X, Y and Z while people aren't really having to do these things for other classes/souls.

    I spend most of my time in the sub-60 WFs as I've leveled 2 classes to 60 and have a warrior in the 40s and rogue in the 50s, but tempests aren't the only thing horribly imbalanced in the lower brackets.

    Healing is extremely too powerful from 20-50. I would put purifier at the top of the list of being the hardest to kill in the lower lvl wfs mainly because they can sit there spamming Ward of Flame while 10 people FF them. Sure you can CC them but it's not always enough, and in the lower lvls not every class or soul has access to the amount of CC necessary to kill a healer. Most of the time the only class that has a chance at killing a healer is a temp or pyro through burst/crits.

    Pyros are just as bad or worse as temps in the lower lvls because their burst is proportionally higher than most other classes. Warlocks and Inqs aren't much of a threat but most of the rogue builds pre-50 are a joke. I don't know exactly what it is, but out of all of the other classes I've played it just seems like most of their builds are pretty weak until the mid 40s. Rogues are squishy as hell in the lower levels and their dmg does not compensate at all compared to any other class with tons more survivability/utility.

    But, all of this doesn't matter as the pre-60 WFs aren't supposed to be balanced anyways, right?

  6. #6
    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zindrix View Post
    Is it fair to assume that people have to make builds and strategize around a single warrior soul though? Shouldn't that be telling in and of itself? Even if you aren't insinuating that people do this, you're still kind of referencing that it can be countered by X, Y and Z while people aren't really having to do these things for other classes/souls.

    I spend most of my time in the sub-60 WFs as I've leveled 2 classes to 60 and have a warrior in the 40s and rogue in the 50s, but tempests aren't the only thing horribly imbalanced in the lower brackets.

    Healing is extremely too powerful from 20-50. I would put purifier at the top of the list of being the hardest to kill in the lower lvl wfs mainly because they can sit there spamming Ward of Flame while 10 people FF them. Sure you can CC them but it's not always enough, and in the lower lvls not every class or soul has access to the amount of CC necessary to kill a healer. Most of the time the only class that has a chance at killing a healer is a temp or pyro through burst/crits.

    Pyros are just as bad or worse as temps in the lower lvls because their burst is proportionally higher than most other classes. Warlocks and Inqs aren't much of a threat but most of the rogue builds pre-50 are a joke. I don't know exactly what it is, but out of all of the other classes I've played it just seems like most of their builds are pretty weak until the mid 40s. Rogues are squishy as hell in the lower levels and their dmg does not compensate at all compared to any other class with tons more survivability/utility.

    But, all of this doesn't matter as the pre-60 WFs aren't supposed to be balanced anyways, right?

    Good response, and thanks for a well thought out approach. Most would flame and flame without making any intelligent response.

    I don't think its fair to make builds just to counter one in the game, if it applies to an entire warfront population doing so, but that is not is needed nor what I was saying. I made my post in response to the current complaining state about tempest, but there are tons of specs that can counter a tempest and alot of these specs counter alot of other builds. Dominator for instance locks down tons of different specs, purifier can counter alot of damage out side of AoE, warden can counter alot of damage outside strong single target damage (ie tempest). It all depends what you are wanting to counter. Pvp boils down to counter relationships, period. When player skill is all normalized it about which spec you choose, what you choose to do with it that wins the match. The problem is a lot of people that self proclaim greatness really aren't but come on here spouting out facts that are compiled from their game play, which is 1) one sided and 2) most of the time by a lower skilled player. These people are unable to figure out how to counter what they are complaining about and thus want to complain that the game is broken.

    This has been going on for three years here, multiple years in wow, over a decade in EQ and so on in ever other game. People self proclaim greatness, complain about something beating them and don't try to expand their skill by talking to people, testing ideas and seeing how that helps. They'd rather someone else be brought to a level that their skill can handle.

    As for the other OP classes in the lower brackets, these are mainly maned by people that have spent their time at lvl 60, or high lvl pre-60 era, and know the ends and out of pvp. Those that control these class will just destroy lower levels because of their knowledge base. I also have a rog, lvl 56, and I run around in a bard spec all the time and just laugh at the ability to control the entire warfront with a derp spec because people are clueless at that level.

    It's just the nature of people learning. These people, if they will take the time to realize that they wont come into the game as superman, will hopefully become better players. But far too often they resort to the complaining posts rather than get better.

    I don't proclaim to be the best. Hell I'm a keyboard turner and know that it's a major handicap. I've talked with people to help get me off this but I just can't seem to be able to. I'm hoping to be getting a game pad soon and this may alleviate my downfall. But I recognize this, it's my weakness and I pay for it. But you don't see me running to the forums asking that mouse turning be disabled in pvp do you?

  7. #7
    Champion of Telara Mire's Avatar
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    the only approved cleavage flashing wardrobe can be purchased from the in game rift store with credits. please do not use any suggestive or naughty pics because this game is only rated T for teens or could be r for ******ed, i can't really tell. you have been warned.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Stirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
    I'm leveling up a cleric. Right now, at level 55, my sentinel is devastating in warfronts. I can keep someone up through crazy burst and then reset the cooldown on all my abilities and keep myself up when they finally figure out to burst on me. I may go back to defiler at level 58 when I get the 30% link, but right now Sent is almost feeling unfair.
    A well played healer is always unfair in low level PVP. Even more so than a well played Tempest. It doesn't really matter whether you're puri, sent or defiler (although defiler is pretty gimpy until they get Explosive Growth at lvl 40), if you are capable of glancing at your raid frames more than once every 5 minutes, you will be a god in the lower brackets.

    Post-60 Puri is still strong enough to mitigate Tempest damage and pretty much anything anyone wants to do, but I still think Defiler is the superior spec because A) you don't need to be in range of the player you're linking for your links to work and B) you are extremely mobile. Puri is more mobile than Sent, but Defiler never needs to stop to cast/channel anything at all.
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  9. #9
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohrid View Post
    I don't proclaim to be the best. Hell I'm a keyboard turner and know that it's a major handicap. I've talked with people to help get me off this but I just can't seem to be able to. I'm hoping to be getting a game pad soon and this may alleviate my downfall. But I recognize this, it's my weakness and I pay for it. But you don't see me running to the forums asking that mouse turning be disabled in pvp do you?
    I'm just commenting on this part here. I've played against you and really, you do quite well with KB turning. I do the same. It's just more natural for me. Always has been. I also...*big gasp* click my hotkeys! OMFG. I am soo teh badz =(

    Regardless, I came into PvP with a strong PvE raiding background. Knowing your class in and out helps make better players in PvP. I think the newer players simply don't have the experience that PvE gives you when it comes to countering debuffs, knowing how to burst and when...Some players are on alts with experience. But they know it's not worth the effort and just sit there gaining XP, favor, etc. till they are leveled up enough to really do something about it. When I started PvP, I used to get all kinds of mad. But eventually you get beyond that and it's "meh, lost another random WF." Oh well, load me up for another! Still gets to me after about 5-6 matches of losing in a row some nights, and I just take a break or play something else.
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  10. #10
    Rift Disciple BIGMOJO's Avatar
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    +1 @ OP

    I agree with you , I think its far too easy for people to whine "This class / spec is OP ...NERF PLZ!" rather than examine their tactics or spec. I would wager that 90% of them run a spec with no silence / stun and do not call/mark targets or assist and then they cry healers are OP. Or they run full glass cannon with no utility / heals and gear for DPS with no + end or + resists and then cry when they get "insta-gibbed" by Tempest.

    Any and every class/spec with proper gear, experience/ knowledge, good tactics and communication when used a SKILLED player will out shine everyone else.

    If your getting spanked - check your spec, check your gear, check your rotation, practice, research, use good tactics, learn from your mistakes and communicate with your team.
    Dont just come to the forums and QQ.
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  11. #11
    Rift Master Nantucket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mire View Post
    the only approved cleavage flashing wardrobe can be purchased from the in game rift store with credits. please do not use any suggestive or naughty pics because this game is only rated T for teens or could be r for ******ed, i can't really tell. you have been warned.

    I wish I could put that outfit on my dwarf warrior, but the whole server would probably crash due to an overload of awesomesauce superhotness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stirby View Post
    A well played healer is always unfair in low level PVP. Even more so than a well played Tempest. It doesn't really matter whether you're puri, sent or defiler (although defiler is pretty gimpy until they get Explosive Growth at lvl 40), if you are capable of glancing at your raid frames more than once every 5 minutes, you will be a god in the lower brackets.

    Post-60 Puri is still strong enough to mitigate Tempest damage and pretty much anything anyone wants to do, but I still think Defiler is the superior spec because A) you don't need to be in range of the player you're linking for your links to work and B) you are extremely mobile. Puri is more mobile than Sent, but Defiler never needs to stop to cast/channel anything at all.
    Healing is pretty awesome. I'm gonna have to give puri a shot pretty soon. I'm amazed at how rude people are to clerics. The bads expect to be healed no matter what stupid situation they get themselves into and then they complain.
    Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

  12. #12
    Sword of Telara Tohrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyloch View Post
    I'm just commenting on this part here. I've played against you and really, you do quite well with KB turning. I do the same. It's just more natural for me. Always has been. I also...*big gasp* click my hotkeys! OMFG. I am soo teh badz =(

    Regardless, I came into PvP with a strong PvE raiding background. Knowing your class in and out helps make better players in PvP. I think the newer players simply don't have the experience that PvE gives you when it comes to countering debuffs, knowing how to burst and when...Some players are on alts with experience. But they know it's not worth the effort and just sit there gaining XP, favor, etc. till they are leveled up enough to really do something about it. When I started PvP, I used to get all kinds of mad. But eventually you get beyond that and it's "meh, lost another random WF." Oh well, load me up for another! Still gets to me after about 5-6 matches of losing in a row some nights, and I just take a break or play something else.
    I click hot buttons as well .

  13. #13
    Ascendant Oblivion333's Avatar
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    LOL I also started playing my alts and enjoying my Tempest. As a tempest here is what I noticed.

    1. Yes my dps is rocking but heals still make the game.
    2. I noticed as a Tempest that Puris are definable an annoyance with their damage mitigation.
    3. Tempest are great for harassing Doms
    4. My spec is Temp/Riftblade/Reaver and Temp/Riftblade/Warlord for pulling...fun fun fun.
    5. I have more fun playing my Tempest lately that I may concentrate on this char.

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  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Kadeth's Avatar
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    I think the biggest problem is not balance but inpatients and a desire for instant gratification. New players want to be the best immediately, they want big rewards after each match and, want to not have to learn, just go in there, mash two buttons over and over and win.

    Not happening, so they blame every other class. The Cleric didn't heal enough, The warrior is OP, the mage is immobile, The Assassin stealths too much, the MM is too mobile and OP.....

    We've heard it all and while there is some basis for some of it, most of the complaining is overblown. Yes Tempest is very powerful, especially at lower levels, Yes mages have to hold still for a few seconds to get the high damage, yes MM are very mobile, yes assassins will come out of nowhere and knock the tar out of you. (then the mage transmogrifies you and an arrow hits you and breaks it so the warrior can pound on you.) Hey it's PvP, that's what they are supposed to do and, you are supposed to do it right back to them.

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara Rexxer's Avatar
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    I still love the fact that it took most people a month after the changes to realize how awesome tempest is. But back on the op I agree with you tor +1 to you and also lawl on the avatar gank.
    I shouldn't have to pve to pvp.

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