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Thread: Horrible PvP balance and the retention of new players.

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Horrible PvP balance and the retention of new players.

    My guild recently recruited a few players who were entirely new to rift. They were interested and had alot of questions about Rift PvP.

    I insisted we put together a pre-made so i logged on to my lvl 17 Mage to play with them,
    we joined a WF and were demolished by Tempest 2-3 shotting us.

    I told them the balancing gets better in higher brackets but they didn't want to que again after that.....

    I know PvP balancing is up to Trion but i was personally embarrassed that they saw that mess. The balance issues have me worried about the retention of new and returning PvPers.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple BIGMOJO's Avatar
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    While I DO AGREE that Temp is OP , (especially at lower levels) they are not the only class that can burst you down in 2-4 hits.

    I think that maybe a blanket DPS debuff or something to make battles last longer would be more enjoyable and also give people a chance to actually laern tactics / mechanics and learn their class.
    Isnt that what lower lvl PvP should be about ?
    " Tonight Defiants ! ... I will PVP u ! " Pukk
    " Sometime when Im alone ... I buff myself" Bigmojo

    Deepwood -- Ermak LvL 64 Cleric Bigmojo LvL 60 Mage Pukk LvL 60 Rogue Brutikuz LvL 60 Warrior Wildmoon LvL 4x Primalist

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Sleepthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpongyCookie View Post
    My guild recently recruited a few players who were entirely new to rift. They were interested and had alot of questions about Rift PvP.

    I insisted we put together a pre-made so i logged on to my lvl 17 Mage to play with them,
    we joined a WF and were demolished by Tempest 2-3 shotting us.

    I told them the balancing gets better in higher brackets but they didn't want to que again after that.....

    I know PvP balancing is up to Trion but i was personally embarrassed that they saw that mess. The balance issues have me worried about the retention of new and returning PvPers.
    You're preaching to the choir here but I see your forum join date is this month so you may not know that.

    I would suggest cross posting to a forum which is actually trafficked by Devs and/or Community Managers like General Discussion or Dimensions.

    EDIT: If you scroll down this forum you will see at least a half dozen threads about the OPness of Tempests, especially in pre-60 brackets. Note the lack of Trion employee posts on said topics.
    Last edited by Sleepthief; 01-22-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple BIGMOJO's Avatar
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    EDIT (timer expired)

    While I DO AGREE that Temp is OP , (especially at lower levels) they are not the only class that can burst you down in 2-4 hits. I also think that veteran players with more time + resources are able to twink out thier toons with uber gear far better than the average player which gives them an even greater advantage. PvP should primarily be about skill not gear.

    I think that maybe a blanket DPS debuff or something to make battles last longer would be more enjoyable and also give people a chance to actually laern tactics / mechanics and learn their class.
    Isnt that what lower lvl PvP should be about ? I think this would also help with retaining new players.

    No one wants to walk into a WF for the 1st time and be like "WOW this place looks so aweso.........ACK!" (dead)
    " Tonight Defiants ! ... I will PVP u ! " Pukk
    " Sometime when Im alone ... I buff myself" Bigmojo

    Deepwood -- Ermak LvL 64 Cleric Bigmojo LvL 60 Mage Pukk LvL 60 Rogue Brutikuz LvL 60 Warrior Wildmoon LvL 4x Primalist

  5. #5
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    If you can more specific with the problem sub60, PM a dev with it. They've made such adjustments in the past.

    Unfortunately though, I think they're spread so thin, you won't get much help from fix all the things, no matter how warranted.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceboots View Post
    If you can more specific with the problem sub60, PM a dev with it. They've made such adjustments in the past.

    Unfortunately though, I think they're spread so thin, you won't get much help from fix all the things, no matter how warranted.
    I remember bro storm. "Just move out of it and kite the warrior!"

    Man good times.

    Also, low level warfronts were never balanced and never will be. Even level 60 warfronts are horribly unbalanced with fast queues taking priority over quality of the warfronts.


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  7. #7
    Plane Touched NightGamez's Avatar
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    Tempest is game breaking at low level pvp. There is no point in even doing low level pvp unless you are a tempest. Its too bad.
    Godsdozer@Seastone

    Quote Originally Posted by charliekelly View Post
    Damage is absolutely meaningless.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Flashmemory's Avatar
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    At level 17? Hmm .. i really call BS.. Nothing has changed pre Arc burst to make tempest OP in that low end bracket.. if so then every one can 3-4 shot you.. Also, pvp in the lowend bracket can never be balanced because you can have low levels vs. high levels and there are many significant breaks in every class where they can be seen as OP at that given level and then a level later totally outclassed by someone several levels higher.. Tempest only needs to be fixed at level 51-60 pvp if anything since that is when leveling through pvp is much slower.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    You're right in the sense that every bracket each class/soul will have a better ability/spell then another making one class/soul OP in one bracket and then another in another bracket. How ever, you say Tempest only need to be balanced in 50-59 bracket.

    I and many others say otherwise. They need to be toned down since around 30 bracket onwards.

    Also, Tempest get Lightning Torrent at 16 points in and that can be a very hard hitting ability at that level which could be game breaking for 10-19 bracket.

    You could say the same about Paragon when they get Flurry but they don't get it till 24 levels in and to make them even more stupid in the 20-29 bracket, they get Tranquillity at 26 levels making them a bit over the top from that point on especially when they then get Shifting Blades.

    Pyro's and MM can be just as stupid as well.

    This can go on for ages though, there has always been issues like this to some degree since launch, but in all honesty, it's not until SL that it's now gone way over the top and stupid.

    I would of rather been playing when Soul Purge wasn't affected by LoS and you were able to use it on people even when they ran behind the trees and walls in BG. Even though that was broken back then, those days of Rift were far better off then they are now. By a long shot.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Lol, My first Rift PvP experience was pretty much the same.

    I've been in matches where people would just soul recall out the WF after noticing that they were up against the same Tempest from previous matches.

    Shock Pulse --> Shock Pulse --> Lightning Torrent --> (Dead)
    and repeat.

    I dropped PvP for awhile until Trion balances it in 2016. (sarcasm)

    If i didn't see the good PvE aspects of Rift i probably would've just uninstalled after my bad PvP experience.

    When a player gets into a new MMO, he/she is comparing it to his/her past MMOs as they play and when balancing is this poor it makes the Devs and the game look bad.

    When a player realizes that a soul that you pay for with money is easily killing people in WFs they will cry out "Pay to Win!!" and have another reason to uninstall.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightGamez View Post
    Tempest is game breaking at low level pvp. There is no point in even doing low level pvp unless you are a tempest. Its too bad.
    Exacty
    /10char

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Sleepthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarling Chicken View Post
    Lol, My first Rift PvP experience was pretty much the same.

    I've been in matches where people would just soul recall out the WF after noticing that they were up against the same Tempest from previous matches.

    Shock Pulse --> Shock Pulse --> Lightning Torrent --> (Dead)
    and repeat.

    I dropped PvP for awhile until Trion balances it in 2016. (sarcasm)

    If i didn't see the good PvE aspects of Rift i probably would've just uninstalled after my bad PvP experience.

    When a player gets into a new MMO, he/she is comparing it to his/her past MMOs as they play and when balancing is this poor it makes the Devs and the game look bad.

    When a player realizes that a soul that you pay for with money is easily killing people in WFs they will cry out "Pay to Win!!" and have another reason to uninstall.
    There is a fair amount of pay to win, as defined by pay to bypass the enormous unwieldly deliberately inflated grind in many places (like Warthunder crew training if you've played that).

    You can buy the best PvP gear directly (Warlords) and indirectly (extra Warfront queues for more Myrmidon marks), huge potion gains (160% marks/prestige), REX -> Plat for half of the best runes which are ~600 plat each, etc. The more you spend the more advantage you will have over all but the already max geared (read: the minority).

    The people who don't pay have to grind and are thus under geared and at a disadvantage for very long periods of time (indefinitely for casual players). The SL souls are extremely strong and OP in 2 cases (warrior/cleric).
    Last edited by Sleepthief; 01-23-2014 at 05:02 AM.
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  13. #13
    Ascendant Lords0fpain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepthief View Post
    There is a fair amount of pay to win, as defined by pay to bypass the enormous unwieldly deliberately inflated grind in many places (like Warthunder crew training if you've played that).

    You can buy the best PvP gear directly (Warlords) and indirectly (extra Warfront queues for more Myrmidon marks), huge potion gains (160% marks/prestige), REX -> Plat for half of the best runes which are ~600 plat each, etc. The more you spend the more advantage you will have over all but the already max geared (read: the minority).

    The people who don't pay have to grind and are thus under geared and at a disadvantage for very long periods of time (indefinitely for casual players). The SL souls are extremely strong and OP in 2 cases (warrior/cleric).
    They will buff the old free souls to OPed status, just check out sin rogues. So there is hope that the old souls will be brought up to a level playing field. But doubtful...
    "There are other aspects of the game that we want you to engage in."

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  14. #14
    Sword of Telara Abraxas79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpongyCookie View Post
    My guild recently recruited a few players who were entirely new to rift. They were interested and had alot of questions about Rift PvP.

    I insisted we put together a pre-made so i logged on to my lvl 17 Mage to play with them,
    we joined a WF and were demolished by Tempest 2-3 shotting us.

    I told them the balancing gets better in higher brackets but they didn't want to que again after that.....

    I know PvP balancing is up to Trion but i was personally embarrassed that they saw that mess. The balance issues have me worried about the retention of new and returning PvPers.
    Welcome to RIFT. Throughout its history Warriors are given a OP PVP spec. At present, its tempest.

    They will eventually get around to adjusting it, I suppose. They do little or no internal testing or on PTS to see if the changes they introduce are overpowered, and ignore feedback form PTS for those that point it out.

    I had hoped as the game matured and the developers gained more experience that things would get better, but they haven't.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Its not just warriors either. In the past we have witnessed Rogues Fan out, Pyro's burning ground, Stormcaller had some type glitch too, these are just some of the examples off the top of my head.

    Its bad for the game when these things get introduced. It makes the RIFT designers look like amateurs. It also spoil the game for everyone else, as no likes to play a game where they have no chance at all.

    I hope this present deal with Tempest doesn't go on endlessly. I recall the debacle with Riftstorm, and I think it was even worst then this. You literally were blown up and could do nothing at all to escape. It took them forever to correct it. Six months at least of totally lopsided PVP, with Warriors blowing up everything.

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