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Thread: This is how you resurrect non-zerg PvP in RIFT

  1. #1
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    Default This is how you resurrect non-zerg PvP in RIFT

    1. Copy few old dungeons maps and replace the bosses and trash mobs with new mini bosses and weaker trash mobs that respawn every "X" seconds/mins.

    Mini bosses and trash cannot hit hard, they just need to be tanky, because this is going to be a gank zone, however without zerg like in CQ and you dont want mobs to create too much advantage for ganking team.

    PvP dungeons can be entered via queue with a party of max 10 players. Each dungeon can be entered by 3 different parties at the same time every 5mins. (30 ppl max total on one map)

    - when new party enters dungons other parties who are inside will get notified (just to ensure that ganking wont give too much advantage, i.e attacking group who have lot's of mobs on them, etc) Such warning will give them at least 1-2 min to prepare, finish the mobs etc.
    - soulwalk cannot be used inside PvP dungeon (to prevent abuse)
    - if there's more than one party alive trash mobs and mini bosses will not drop anything (this is important to prevent situation where let say your friends enter the same map and just go afk or farm in peace in the same time blocking other real parties from entering it and ganking)


    2. Give players good reason to actually go there.

    This can be easily done by creating next upgrade to current best PvP set. Each trash mob and mini boss will have a chance to drop "X" quest items which later can be traded for upgrade parts at NPC.

    > Few things to keep in mind <

    Upgrade parts should provide decent boost (make pvp set as good as top T2 PvE items but for PvP mostly, so that players who want to PvP in end game will have to grind it)

    New PvP upgrade should be not only good, but also expensive (kinda like with T2 shop items for FES) so it will take a while to finish everything.

    Amount of PvP dungeons needs to be limited to only few maps and players shouldn't be able to choose for which map they want to queue (you dont want to make it easy for players to enter the same map as their friends just to prevent them from being attacked by real party)

    (if those friends wants to PvP between each other so badly they can do it outside PvP dungeons, where there's not so much abuse)

    Another reason why amount of maps needs to be limited is to make sure that there's more parties waiting in queue rather than afk farming in peace due to low amount of players online or interested in new PvP gear upgrade.

    It would be good if amount of maps available to queue would scale with amount of players online or / and in the queue.



    /Side note: New PvP gear would work only for open World PvP and PvP dungeons (in CQ and WF you can boolster players down for better balance IF you consider it problematic)



    If you believe that there's some potential abuse still possible, feel free to share and I'll try to solve it =)
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  2. #2
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    NOPE nope nope nope go to jail

    But seriously, this game needs more than pvp dungeons to revive it, though it would bring temporary interest back at most. We also don't need more open world gank zones, no one likes Seastone except the max ranked rogues picking on people who can't defend themselves. We also don't need more pvp gear because there's already 90 prestige ranks and 3 gear sets and many, many other grinds. This game is grindy enough as it is.

    Conquest needs to die a horrible death or they need to delete conquest power. It was fun when we could just zerg each other and watch the favor roll in but is often unrewarding and one-sided these days. It also doesn't help that a majority of the player base aren't capable of playing their souls anywhere near as efficient as they could/should be making the experience even more miserable.


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  3. #3
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    This just reminds me of the dredge from AION, a pvp dungeon pitting two teams to increase their score in a pvpve dungeon via various objectives like taking out control points, mini bosses, main bosses, and killing other players. You could lose points too.

    However, the main thing I hated about pvpve dungeons was *training*. People would *train* mobs into other groups by sacrificing a single person in tank spec, he would agro tons of mobs and just pull them all into the opposing group, usually while yelling CHOO CHOO. Meanwhile the opposing group healer is still doing whatever they need to do to keep their group alive, once the mobs kill the *trainer* then all those mobs usually have agro on the healer, wiping the healer. As the mobs move to other members then rest of *trainers* move in and target remaining members. They then kill remaining mobs that the team they just destroyed couldn't kill.

    This was pretty much every fight...was managing successful *training*.

    It's very very tough to avoid *training* in PVPVE dungeons, and I've honestly never seen it done successfully before by any game in existance. The only games I know of that can do PVPVE are mobas, and thats because healing and buffing doesnt generate agro there, only proximity and damage do.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    This just reminds me of the dredge from AION, a pvp dungeon pitting two teams to increase their score in a pvpve dungeon via various objectives like taking out control points, mini bosses, main bosses, and killing other players. You could lose points too.

    However, the main thing I hated about pvpve dungeons was *training*. People would *train* mobs into other groups by sacrificing a single person in tank spec, he would agro tons of mobs and just pull them all into the opposing group, usually while yelling CHOO CHOO. Meanwhile the opposing group healer is still doing whatever they need to do to keep their group alive, once the mobs kill the *trainer* then all those mobs usually have agro on the healer, wiping the healer. As the mobs move to other members then rest of *trainers* move in and target remaining members. They then kill remaining mobs that the team they just destroyed couldn't kill.

    This was pretty much every fight...was managing successful *training*.

    It's very very tough to avoid *training* in PVPVE dungeons, and I've honestly never seen it done successfully before by any game in existance. The only games I know of that can do PVPVE are mobas, and thats because healing and buffing doesnt generate agro there, only proximity and damage do.
    Thanks for feedback.

    Im familiar with the term of "training". I used to play Lineage 2 (the same company made Aion) and this can be very easily solved. It already works in RIFT but is not enforced a lot.

    Basically if you pull more than "X" meters away from his spot he will become invulnerable, start regenering hp very fast and running back to his spawn.

    If you set numbers properly pulling wont work on more than few mobs.

    Also as I said in the first post, if there will be single party members alive from group 2 or 3, mobs will not drop any quest items.

    Before somebody mentions random Assassins trolling with afk stealth in the corner, keep in mind there are cunsumables which show location of all players on mini map. Devs can also add more anti-stealth mechanics which work inside PvP dungeon if it will be problematic or abused in some negattive way.


    The system forces you to seek for PvP instead of afk farming. =)
    Last edited by AlwaysHealNeverDie; 01-16-2014 at 04:37 PM.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  5. #5
    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    1. Copy few old dungeons maps and replace the bosses and trash mobs with new mini bosses and weaker trash mobs that respawn every "X" seconds/mins.

    Mini bosses and trash cannot hit hard, they just need to be tanky, because this is going to be a gank zone, however without zerg like in CQ and you dont want mobs to create too much advantage for ganking team.

    PvP dungeons can be entered via queue with a party of max 10 players. Each dungeon can be entered by 3 different parties at the same time every 5mins. (30 ppl max total on one map)

    - when new party enters dungons other parties who are inside will get notified (just to ensure that ganking wont give too much advantage, i.e attacking group who have lot's of mobs on them, etc) Such warning will give them at least 1-2 min to prepare, finish the mobs etc.
    - soulwalk cannot be used inside PvP dungeon (to prevent abuse)
    - if there's more than one party alive trash mobs and mini bosses will not drop anything (this is important to prevent situation where let say your friends enter the same map and just go afk or farm in peace in the same time blocking other real parties from entering it and ganking)


    2. Give players good reason to actually go there.

    This can be easily done by creating next upgrade to current best PvP set. Each trash mob and mini boss will have a chance to drop "X" quest items which later can be traded for upgrade parts at NPC.

    > Few things to keep in mind <

    Upgrade parts should provide decent boost (make pvp set as good as top T2 PvE items but for PvP mostly, so that players who want to PvP in end game will have to grind it)

    New PvP upgrade should be not only good, but also expensive (kinda like with T2 shop items for FES) so it will take a while to finish everything.

    Amount of PvP dungeons needs to be limited to only few maps and players shouldn't be able to choose for which map they want to queue (you dont want to make it easy for players to enter the same map as their friends just to prevent them from being attacked by real party)

    (if those friends wants to PvP between each other so badly they can do it outside PvP dungeons, where there's not so much abuse)

    Another reason why amount of maps needs to be limited is to make sure that there's more parties waiting in queue rather than afk farming in peace due to low amount of players online or interested in new PvP gear upgrade.

    It would be good if amount of maps available to queue would scale with amount of players online or / and in the queue.



    /Side note: New PvP gear would work only for open World PvP and PvP dungeons (in CQ and WF you can boolster players down for better balance IF you consider it problematic)



    If you believe that there's some potential abuse still possible, feel free to share and I'll try to solve it =)
    Decided to analyze this post in an in-depth way since i can see you spent a lot of time on this.

    525 words 2765 characters

    The average person types at about 40 words per minute. So this works out to approximately 13 minutes worth of typing, without including any time taken to organize the ideas.

    By assuming that you give a **** about what you wrote, I have estimated the number of people that give a **** to be approximately 1.

    Here is that in graph form.

    And lastly, if you were paid $.01 USD for each character typed, you would have made roughly $27.65, at a rate of about $127.62 per hour.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    I am all for players suggesting features that they would like to see. If it was done properly and with some tweaks, I could see myself PvPing in an area like that. Open World PvP was always my favorite part of Rift, and this would eliminate the zerg associated with it.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliekelly View Post
    The average person types at about 40 words per minute. So this works out to approximately 13 minutes worth of typing, without including any time taken to organize the ideas.
    Is that really average? Or is it Rift standards?
    New round up of some high rank matches
    Chun-Li*E.Honda*Evil Ryu
    Abel*Ibuki*Dhalsim
    Gouken*Zangief*Ryu

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliekelly View Post
    Decided to analyze this post in an in-depth way since i can see you spent a lot of time on this.

    525 words 2765 characters

    The average person types at about 40 words per minute. So this works out to approximately 13 minutes worth of typing, without including any time taken to organize the ideas.

    By assuming that you give a **** about what you wrote, I have estimated the number of people that give a **** to be approximately 1.

    Here is that in graph form.

    And lastly, if you were paid $.01 USD for each character typed, you would have made roughly $27.65, at a rate of about $127.62 per hour.
    Not really the feedback I was looking for, but thanks for bump. If you guys desire new PvP features and changes you need to stop trolling and keep asking for reasonable changes. =)
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

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