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Thread: Why is the thought of arenas despised by so many?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Why is the thought of arenas despised by so many?

    Going through the millions of arenas threads in the pvp forums I noticed one common thing; everyone seems to quickly dismiss the idea of including arenas to Rift. They don't say why they feel its silly, stupid, unnecessary or whatever the case may be and I'm sitting here saying why would anyone feel that way? From first glance I see that the community in Rift is majority PVE based, look at the servers (several PVE vs. 1 single PVP server). Now I use to play wow back in the vanilla times and there were no arenas and I had so much fun pvping in that game. However, the concept was not made until the following expansion and its been so successful ever since. The only obvious reason why anyone would reject arenas is simply they work for trion and know its a huge undertaking economically.

    So community why the hate towards something you can avoid queuing up for?

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangu View Post
    I've been saying 5v5 wouldn't work forever because as a whole the rift community isn't good enough to do them...

    ^^ pretty much that.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
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    Trion does not cater to pvp as does wow.

    That being said broken mechanics that splash over/ arent looked at from pve to pvp have remained for a long time.

    Not knocking anyone but a pve trinket from a while ago (i think tele said its over a year) is currently better then the current pvp trinket. Some pve items as well work for pvp and are superior. Point being pvp aspects get ignored.

    Certain souls are also very superior in 5s since the game was built around ~10 players. A dom that can mass drain energy/mana while doing damage and also squirrel two people at once is an example. A defiler whose links mitigate damage replaces the need for any tank like players, which are worthless anyways, is needed for top notch fives). This is due to the burst heals vs burst dps of the current game. Even though there are more souls viable for 5s there are just as many that would be horrible in a competetive environment.

    Mechanics in this game are more extreme as well making choices even worse. What i mean is that one soul can erase 2 buffs/3 seconds and acts as a dps while the next best dps does 2/10. Thats 3xs better if you are an MM. Many souls also cant debuff thus limiting choices even more. Some souls root for 5 seconds, some 8, some two; some can reset all abilities doing all cc twice in a row, etc...

    Basically such hodgepodge creations are fine when thrown in with a mix of more players, but come under inspection when its only 5 players.

    If you want a simpler explanation Billy cant play his chloro because its subpar and Sally wants to bard it up but thats not going to cut it against an organized team. If the playerbase was stronger and there were tons of "just for fun" players it would be diffferent.

    As such i suggested a "randomizer" for 5s; that being where the system randomly restricts souls and/or limits how far up a soul you can go talent wise. Both sides would have ~ 2-3 minutes to put them together and/or you could use a preset build that fits the prereq (the game offers lots of extra build slots already). In this way true talent would show because you cant just go in taking the perfect comp and win. Imagine then you MIGHT need a bard or tact or warden to heal because sent and defiler wrre randomly limited in your current match to some degree.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 01-07-2014 at 05:29 AM.

  4. #4
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    Arenas included a gear treadmill that spilled over into standard battleground play. Imagine if there was a tier much much stronger than myrmidon that only a select few players could get, and then those guys show up in your normal matches.

    Plus what's the point of putting a gear treadmill in a competitive aspect? The strong get stronger just means those that try to break into it "late" tend to be unable to climb the ladder because they can't finish their gear without climbing the ladder.

  5. #5
    General of Telara Ardor's Avatar
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    Arenas create a balancing nightmare. Specs determine most outcomes, not skill. Don't like having to change your specs every few months now? If arenas are implemented, and Trion has to balance all specs for 2v2, 3v3, and 5v5, enjoy the weekly respecs it will require you to do, whether you PvP or not.

    It's a nightmare for the developers, and makes the game experience worse for the majority of players. WoW developers have publicly stated that they regret introducing arenas into that game.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    It is true, this crowd doesn't like the thought of Arena. They really get their jimmies rustled when I say Quake 3 Arena > *.

    Just watch, it's the 'Arena' part.
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  7. #7
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    id love arena minus the gear advantage, just leader boards, fluff, and normal favor and prestige.

    1 v 1 especially

    plus then maybe trion could spend some time correcting the balance of classes for pvp not just pve. i never understood why people are scared of that. lets not spend time on balancing and leave everything broken. makes no sense. especially if you can keep pve and pvp seperate.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    I think the only way they'll get 5v5 to run well is if they create premade balanced pvp based specs for players to choose from.

    Kinda like in LOL opening window where you select your champion, players can select their builds and ban others, etc. It could also be random selection or select from 10 options or more or less, etc. There are many ways to work it still for 5v5 I think.

    People could go through each build, save hot bar setups etc for each one, so when they select a built, it'll automatically load upon entering the map.

    Let warfronts allow players the freedoms they currently have, but 5v5, in order to have variety, need to have more control on build balance from the rift team or you will never see variety of builds or strategies as players begin to zone in on pure optimization of teams, class combos, and builds.

    Also for 5v5 they need to incorporate some kind of reward. I was thinking a buff reward would be best for CQ, but it only buffs rewards, not stats. Depending on ranking or number of wins, they should allow a variety of rewards including but not limited to the following ideas:

    *repeatable refresher pots for warfronts
    *Increased CQ gaining speed
    *Cap raise for favor, CQ power, and/or pvp marks
    *Trophy awards for various seasons for dims, mounts, pets, costumes, etc.
    *Titles, pvp based artifact sets, etc.

    There are ways to get involved with a reward system that dont involve a direct impact of ingame stats but still help pvpers either gain and maintain their pvp awards in other avenues, or help them show off more.

    TLDR: They need two things: *More control over PVP balanced and approved builds, with ways to save setups for each before hand, and *Rewards that dont directly impact in game stats but help high end pvpers either show off or increase ability to maintain pvp gains in other avenues.
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  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara Raistlinxx's Avatar
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    Answer:

    Trion..and pvp in the same sentence.

    They will never care enough to make pvp decent in rift. Were their 3rd string bootcall when it comes to content.

    With the guild "Addiction" being their wife. (Progression Raiders)

    All other content falls somewhere in between.
    Last edited by Raistlinxx; 01-07-2014 at 02:46 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Jeffreys's Avatar
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    Some Rift pvpers: "We want 5v5 death match. No rewards needed."

    Trion gives a 5v5 death match.

    Same Rift pvpers: " *Cry Cry* There are no rewards."
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  11. #11
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    Some Rift pvpers: "We want 5v5 death match. No rewards needed."

    Trion gives a 5v5 death match.

    Same Rift pvpers: " *Cry Cry* There are no rewards."
    Besides customers just never knowing what exactly they actually want, a lot was the people yelling for this, at least on the forums, have already left.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Raistlinxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    Some Rift pvpers: "We want 5v5 death match. No rewards needed."

    Trion gives a 5v5 death match.

    Same Rift pvpers: " *Cry Cry* There are no rewards."
    Almost but not quite.
    How it actually happened:

    Some rift pvpers: "We want 5v5 death match. No rewards needed"

    Those guys got bored waiting for years and quit.

    Trion takes years to remove a fang from black garden. "holy crap effort level 9000"

    They give us an obvious insult packaged as a pvp update.

    The pvpers who are left : "We want something better, were sick of being ignored"

  13. #13
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    i dont recall anyone saying they dont want rewards they didnt just want extra rewards like better gear ect ect. no rewards period was never discussed or supported by anyone that i can remember and i was all over every thread about 5 v 5s because i wanted them

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffreys View Post
    Some Rift pvpers: "We want 5v5 death match. No rewards needed."

    Trion gives a 5v5 death match.

    Same Rift pvpers: " *Cry Cry* There are no rewards."

    Everyone that wanted 5v5s left before they were even released when we realized we could go to other games, get a group of friends together and que automatically for whatever type of pvp we wanted to do without having to set up 5v5s in Rift for hours at a time to play teams we mostly just face rolled over anyway.
    I'm not sure where this give rewards idea came from, i personally never cared about rewards and i don't really think more people would do 5s if they were offered rewards anyway, they would just lose and make threads whining that 5s give rewards and they shouldn't be required to do 5v5s to get them, it's a community problem not a Trion problem.
    Last edited by BattleBunnyRivven; 01-07-2014 at 11:23 PM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant
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    I don't despise Arenas per se .. I despise PVP in its entirety due to the horrible 'community' that is breeds and the endless QQ and 'smack' talking that goes on, it's like being in a junior school playground much of the time when reading PVP forums.

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