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Thread: Mage souls feedback #2: a new twist for elementalist

  1. #1
    Ascendant Landstalker's Avatar
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    Default Mage souls feedback #2: a new twist for elementalist

    I used to enjoy pet classes in other games but I find it hard to get into ele. I think it would be awesome to make ele hybrids reflective of how many points are spent into other souls of the build.

    For example, what if we had a 40+ Ele and 30+ 2nd soul special pet summons.

    Like if we had a 40 ele 36 pyro you could summon a special fire pet that would cast heatwave on itself and throw out a huge ST burst. Then it would act as normal until that main ability is off of CD.

    Or chloros could get a pet that spams natural splendor every 1 min and vile spores the rest of the time.

    A dom could cast MB and then do CCs

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    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landstalker View Post

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    Telaran Gnillort's Avatar
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    Or they could just delete elementalist and no one outside of the 51-59 brackets will even notice.

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    I think elementalist needs to be more the opposing spec of necromancer.

    So what does necromancer bring to the table?

    1) A single link, reducing damage, no cd
    2) reasonable single target, amazing cleaves
    3) self heals
    4) lots of little minions
    5) more damage over time component
    6) purge

    So I feel we should do counterparts for ele

    1) A link, but similar to blighted greed instead. Increases the mages damage when the target receives damage (great on tank pet, or a tank in a party).
    2) reasonable cleave, but amazing single target
    3) Self shields and duo pet shields (like a shield cast that affects both you and your pet in one cast).
    4) one BAM (big a#@#$ minion). Maybe give the pets more skills that "trigger" based on what you do as well instead of being 100% autonomous.
    5) More burst CDs
    6) Interrupt instead of purge.

    Anyway just some ideas. Ele needs some love, particularly in the utility and mana department.
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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnillort View Post
    Or they could just delete elementalist and no one outside of the 51-59 brackets will even notice.
    Unfortunately, QFT. But only because any Ele pet dies so easily after level 60. The pets are awesome, each has a purpose and special abilities for their designed type of purpose. They don't heal the owner, though. But they die so easily and that means the Ele is gimped if the instant pet summon is on 60s cd, which it would quickly be since the pets die so easily. I had to stop playing Ele because of that, because unlike the pet owner the pets can't stand up to focus long enough to do their design purpose after about PR60 owner level. Kill pet, pull the Ele, the Ele is gimped and easily dies. RIP, Ele!

    In a builder or finisher macro (or any macro, really) the special purpose pet abilities can be cast in addition to an ability that the owner uses. That's the way it's supposed to work and always has, if the macro is created right. Belatedly, I think I was myself gimping my Ele a little, though, not that it matters since pets die so easily. The primary advantage of a pet is to have it attack a 2nd target instead of the target the owner is fighting. Which means don't use the petattack {ability name} but instead manually (keybind) tell the pet to attack the target but in the builder etc. macros use the petcast {ability name} - that way the pet won't peel off the 2nd target. I think petcast is a valid pet command, or used to be at one time.

    If we have full and absolute control over what our pets do and they didn't die so easily at higher PR levels then the 61 Ele soul would be nice to use after character level 60. I hated having to stop using it.
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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    aaargh.
    Been so long, about 15 PR levels, since I used Ele almost exclusively that I've forgotten the pet commands I used to use. /sigh

    But I know this. Back after game launch I didn't have my pets peel off the target I had told them to attack, unless I targeted a different target and used the petattack command again. I did try to do that when I came back at F2P launch, but I couldn't make it work again - the pet would peel and attack my current target even though I didn't want it to switch target. I used to put a pet on a pocket healer while my character would attack the enemy that healer was protecting. I couldn't figure out how to do it again, when I came back at F2P launch. Not that it mattered, really, pets die way to easy after character level 60, IMO. Except for the Rogue wolf pet, it seemed pretty resistant to damage compared to Ele pets after character level 60.
    Last edited by Taptap; 11-21-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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    Plane Walker Stirby's Avatar
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    I think having two pet souls in one class is redundant. One will always be better than the other and there isn't enough hybridization in this game to combine the two in any interesting way beyond the standard "61 point this / a handful of points in that and maybe that."

    I think they should scrap the ele pets entirely and focus on the rotation of elements, which is the unique part of the Elementalist tree. You have the Cycle of Earth/Cycle of Air/Cycle of Water/Cycle of Fire, but not enough good skills to get any meaningful use out of them, making what could be a fun rotation completely pointless. If people really want Ele to have pets, they should be of the Empty the Crypts/Mass Grave variety, and proc those Cycle effects.
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    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Suggestion: Make pets untargetable and invincible in pvp. Its a simple solution to bring pet classes into balance in pvp.

    Its not like having your pet out and invincible is any advantage, that pet is just part of the soul and is required for the soul to do any amount of competitive dps. Besides, mages could use some lovins right about now.

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    Suggestion: Make pets untargetable and invincible in pvp. Its a simple solution to bring pet classes into balance in pvp.

    Its not like having your pet out and invincible is any advantage, that pet is just part of the soul and is required for the soul to do any amount of competitive dps. Besides, mages could use some lovins right about now.
    I think this would be very innappropriate. if a pet is untargettable, I can literally leave it on a healer then hid behind a nearby rock forever and they can't do anything about it. Can't CC it or nothing.

    I however understand the plight of such a large CD on insta pet summons in pvp. In pve it doesn't matter because managing a pet in a scripted fight is part of the challenge. Nonscripted fights it doesnt work with that long of a CD and severly can gimp pet specs.

    I would propose instead that if you are in pvp combat, the cooldown for instant pet summons is reduced to 20 seconds instead of a minute. That way necros can still use it for mass grave without fear of not having it available soon for when their pet gets focused down. Same for elementalist.
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    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    I would propose instead that if you are in pvp combat, the cooldown for instant pet summons is reduced to 20 seconds instead of a minute. That way necros can still use it for mass grave without fear of not having it available soon for when their pet gets focused down. Same for elementalist.

    True story, this would also work. There really is no downside to being able to instant summon your pet in pvp more often.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Malcanthe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    I think this would be very innappropriate. if a pet is untargettable, I can literally leave it on a healer then hid behind a nearby rock forever and they can't do anything about it. Can't CC it or nothing.
    True, but that could be part of the fun/tactics of it, something that gives pet classes a unique advantage. I don't think would make pet classes overpowered.

    I would propose instead that if you are in pvp combat, the cooldown for instant pet summons is reduced to 20 seconds instead of a minute.
    Also a very good suggestion. Alternately, reduce the casting time of the pet summons from 8s to 2s or whatever.

  12. #12
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanthe View Post
    True, but that could be part of the fun/tactics of it, something that gives pet classes a unique advantage. I don't think would make pet classes overpowered.


    Also a very good suggestion. Alternately, reduce the casting time of the pet summons from 8s to 2s or whatever.
    Also the pets alone really don't do much damage and would require quite a bit of micromanaging to pull off. Just your pet attacking a healer while you hide would just get fluff healed anyway. I don't think it would do enough damage to actually make a difference.

    Agree with both sentiments. I actually prefer the idea of a 2 second pet cast to a 20 second CD on insta cast.

    I would LOVE to play necro in warfronts. Pop dat possession in the beginning when everyone is grouped up and single handedly change the tide of the match. This would be arguably OP, but given its AE and how bad AE is in PVP it wouldn't be too bad.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanthe View Post
    True, but that could be part of the fun/tactics of it, something that gives pet classes a unique advantage. I don't think would make pet classes overpowered.
    I think it does definitely have a tactical play. the problem with tactics is if there is only one good one. Imagine a fight in carthan ridge where it takes on basically a massive pokemon battle. Everyone hids and sends there pets in but no one jumps down lol.

    In addition this tactical playstyle was gimped several times already on purpose. First with pet ranged and second with LOS, granted it was a different class for LOS. I am specifically thinking of wrathful exhuberance with sentinal. Hiding out of LOS and doing damage ACTIVELY (not passively from pre-existing conditions like a dot, or damage per ability effect type thing) was determined to be really bad because everyone went through great lengths to do just that and only that. Which is why both of those changes were made.

    If you can attack, you should also be in some form of potential danger yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanthe View Post
    Also a very good suggestion. Alternately, reduce the casting time of the pet summons from 8s to 2s or whatever.
    They have this for Cleric specs compared to mages, but no instant summons. Non of their DPS rotations require a despawn and/or summon during combat.

    Mage DPS is enhanced when mass grave is instant rather than hardcast. Elementalist can dramatically boost their burst DPS by sacrificing their pet and instantly resummoning it back to battle as well, and a hardcast resummon would not be worth it because the buff only lasts so long.

    Thus for mages, the better suggestion would be the reduction on insta summon cooldowns rather than the cast itself because it'll benefit both the DPS rotations as well as the pet death issues while in pvp combat. Also insta summons are not interuptable which is really important for pvp.
    Last edited by Xenoheart; 11-22-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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  14. #14
    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    I'd like to be able to summon pets faster. It should be expensive, but fast summons is the only way pet souls are viable in pvp, most notably so in CQ and now that premades/groups have become common in warfronts. The pets do damage, yes, but that's not their purpose! Pets have unique abilities that, when used right, are for specific types of cc. Myself, I just love to cc.

    I suppose everyone at L50 and above has a "lets try this out" role that they use to experiment with different soul combinations for a potential Role. Just make one up, enable the pet bar, and pay attention to what each of the unique abilities for a pet can do - especially when those abilities are used in macros instead of being auto-cast (if an ability has the swirly effect on the petbar, right-click it to turn it off except for the one instant cast with no cd that most pets have). Depending on your enemy target, one pet will work better than does another. For example, the Rogue's Dire wolf is best for messing with a healer. The Mage's water pet is for stuns and snares, the air one for increased dps magic damage, the earth one for increased physical damage, and so on. Each pet has unique abilities that are for unique situations. In most cases the pet damage is not that great, because that's not the primary purpose of the pet! And the 2nd purpose of the pet is that its unique abilities are what cause procs to occur - if soul #2 has some Pyro then guess what procs as instants? Try it on a practice dummy and see! That's why pets are instantly killed by the enemy, and until they can be summoned again the owner is probably going to die in the next 10 seconds. So pets can't be used in the higher PvP brackets, they die to quick and can't be summoned again fast enough when considering just how much friggin' damage is going on so fast in the higher level warfronts and in particular in CQ.
    Specter
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