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Thread: Vengeance and Valor..

  1. #16
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    > Increases effective attack power and spell power against enemy players

    > Increases effective attack power and spell power

    > Increases spell power

    Spell power increases healing. Vengeance increases spell power in PvP.
    Therefore, Vengeance increases healing.

    I don't get what you don't get about the tooltip.

    And good luck on your religious crusade to get a dev response. Trion are actually better at using their forum than most MMOs, but again .. good luck.
    It's probably because the wording implies that it only works on offensive attacks on enemies.

    It does work on healing, just hop in a WF and test it with feast of vengeance or a 200 vengeance stone on a HoT with no min-max variance and you'll see the difference, but the tooltip is very misleading.

  2. #17
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    Vengeance is essentially extra SP/AP that applies when you PvP, for both damage and healing/absorbs. If you want something "official", read the following section from these patch notes:

    - Passives and abilities that grant a percentage increase to Spell Power or Attack Power now also apply the same to Vengeance.

    - Debuffs that reduce Spell Power or Attack Power by a percentage now also reduce Vengeance.

    - Abilities that deal damage or healing based purely on Attack Power or Spell Power now gain the proper increase from Vengeance. (ex: Warlord's Recovery Posture now heals for 8% of attack power and vengeance.)

    - In Warfronts and Conquest, Vengeance is always used for all spell or melee calculations. In the open world and duels it is only used when actively in combat with another player.

    - Note: Tooltips do not reflect heal/damage/absorb bonuses from Vengeance.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by forbiddenlake View Post
    > Increases effective attack power and spell power against enemy players


    Spell power increases healing. Vengeance increases spell power in PvP.
    Therefore, Vengeance increases healing.

    I don't get what you don't get about the tooltip.

    And good luck on your religious crusade to get a dev response. Trion are actually better at using their forum than most MMOs, but again .. good luck.
    Your reading comprehension skills are lacking.

    The statement is specific about effecting spell power for the purposes of effecting enemies only.

  4. #19
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    maybe if you'd rather not have a discussion about the subject of your query, you might like to try searching for the answer on your own.

    as it is, we've provided the answer, many times over. for our help you seem to want to get mad that we are not devs, or that we wont waste our time doing the searches for you.

    /close thread

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    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  5. #20
    Plane Walker
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    Vengeance is spell power/attack power for pvp only. It was added to the game. along with valor, to substantially differentiate between pvp and pve gear. The effect vengeance has is identical to spell power or attack power on a point by point basis (1000 vengeance = 1000 attack power), but it's affects will only be applied in pvp. Further, branches in soul trees that grant an increase to attack power or spell power are also supposed to grant that increase to vengeance. It wasn't that way when they first introduced it, but they changed it a while after. Which makes sense when you consider that the point of vengeance and valor is to separate pvp gear from pve gear (this was done, rightly so, because hardcore pvpers who spent all or most of their time pvping had to compete with pve'ers (who didn't pvp that often) who often had access to better gear, particularly weapons, via top end raids).
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    maybe if you'd rather not have a discussion about the subject of your query, you might like to try searching for the answer on your own.

    as it is, we've provided the answer, many times over. for our help you seem to want to get mad that we are not devs, or that we wont waste our time doing the searches for you.

    /close thread
    Do you really think you have any authority to close a thread?

    The issue here is that the tooltips are extremely misleading. I agree that vengeance probably does in fact add to spell power for all purposes. I also agree that valor probably reduces the penalty for healing in pvp.

    However, as the tooltips do not state this specifically we can not just assume that is how it works because that is what makes sense to most.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damon Koal View Post
    Do you really think you have any authority to close a thread?

    The issue here is that the tooltips are extremely misleading. I agree that vengeance probably does in fact add to spell power for all purposes. I also agree that valor probably reduces the penalty for healing in pvp.

    However, as the tooltips do not state this specifically we can not just assume that is how it works because that is what makes sense to most.
    There is a Dev post on this some where but know one is going to go look it up for you. Also as others have mentioned it is extremely easy to test.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelebra View Post
    There is a Dev post on this some where but know one is going to go look it up for you. Also as others have mentioned it is extremely easy to test.
    Yet, you keep missing the issue here.

    The issue isn't does it effect healing spell power, the issue is that the tooltips are misleading.

    Due to this, pvp gear seems worthless for healers, if you go by a strict reading of what valor and vengeance do.

  9. #24
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    is the op trolling? if so, 10/10.

    if not, L2search forums.


    I DO have the power to close thread...

    /thread closed


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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damon Koal View Post
    Yet, you keep missing the issue here.

    The issue isn't does it effect healing spell power, the issue is that the tooltips are misleading.

    Due to this, pvp gear seems worthless for healers, if you go by a strict reading of what valor and vengeance do.
    Even if vengeance didn't effect heals for some reason, you don't actually get a choice about using it inside warfronts and conquest, and only an idiot would choose to take ~50% more damage by unequipping their pvp weapon in open world/duels.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Even if vengeance didn't effect heals for some reason, you don't actually get a choice about using it inside warfronts and conquest, and only an idiot would choose to take ~50% more damage by unequipping their pvp weapon in open world/duels.
    You assume one gets into open world duels.

    Why would you want to anyway? 99% of the time it's a rogue who is stealthed and sneaks up on you. The fight is almost over before you can react. (for some reason it's the better geared rogues that seem to prefer this).

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damon Koal View Post
    You need to go back and read what I was quoting.



    Not looking for what people think. I am looking for what the devs have posted/said.



    Yes, pvp gear is worth getting. If for nothing else than the damage reduction it offers.

    However, due to the very poorly worded tooltips it makes little sense to want to buy them.
    Dude ur a ****** bag. These guys are trying to help and you're just throwing out snotty comments like a spoiled kid that isn't getting what he wants.

  13. #28
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    i don't have a screenshot but i wrote down the stats of me pve gear with identical buffs (elemental armor only) in and out of a WF at lvl 53

    PvE...................PvP
    Resists
    463...................466

    Health
    9345.................11175

    Armor
    8447.................6555

    Int
    1023..................864

    Spell power
    2036..................1792

    Spell Crit
    1016...................992

    Crit power
    127.....................15

    Valor
    60......................60

    Vengeance
    61......................61

    i do not know what boost in vengeance/valor i get from pvp set as it is not listed, or it is none as i already meet the minimum, but i gain a bit in health and everything else is gimp except resists that remain about the same.
    Last edited by Ardept; 11-20-2013 at 12:23 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pro Show View Post
    Dude ur a ****** bag. These guys are trying to help and you're just throwing out snotty comments like a spoiled kid that isn't getting what he wants.
    Out of everything I have done here, have I resorted to the level you are at? That of name calling and of bringing nothing at all to a thread?

    The people responding here, are answering in how they interpret what vengeance and valor do. This is not what the tooltips state. Maybe when you find a job where an exact description on or of something is needed you will comprehend this better.

    I have already admitted that how the people here are saying vengeance and valor is probably the way they do work. However that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

    Here to illustrate an issue I shall tell you a story.

    One morning a sheriff and a constable knocked on the door of manor. They promptly informed the Lord of the manor that there was a dead woman from a nearby village in one of his fields.
    The Lord of the Manor replied, "So, were you poaching or trespassing when you found the body of the dead woman in my fields?"

    You would probably assume the issue was that of the dead woman here. When in fact it was that of the illegal trespass of the police.

  15. #30
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    Your stance seems to be that you will only listen to a dev response and are not interested in what anyone else has to say. So be it. How about you ignore any non-dev comments rather than dragging it on unless that is your real objective, which is looking to be the case.

    Don't like the wording, file a ticket.
    Don't want to get pvp gear, then wear your pve gear.

    Nothing much more to discuss.

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