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Thread: Question about Valor

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    Plane Touched NightGamez's Avatar
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    Default Question about Valor

    I am a Dps cleric and am looking at my end game 2h mace. I want as much Dps as possible and am debating between a weapon with 1750 spell dmg or a weapon with 1450 spell dmg and 1250 valor. I guess my real question is if i have full warlords armor and valor from other items and accessories can I get away with loosing out on 1250 valor in exchange for +300 spell power?
    Godsdozer@Seastone

    Quote Originally Posted by charliekelly View Post
    Damage is absolutely meaningless.

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    Valor becomes more and more valuable the more of it you have, because its a mitigation stat.

    Your full set with PA etc will give you about 5117 valor, you definitely don't want to drop a quarter of that for some paltry spell power, which will be lost (outside duels and open world) and replaced with a freelancer weapon.

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    Champion Tengri's Avatar
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    If the weapon you have on is not atleast Freelancer it will be replaced with freelancer quality. You can't go in with PvE weapons and lose out on valor for more spell power. The weapon will be changed to the Freelancer equivalent.

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    Plane Touched NightGamez's Avatar
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    thank you for the responses I understand now
    Godsdozer@Seastone

    Quote Originally Posted by charliekelly View Post
    Damage is absolutely meaningless.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightGamez View Post
    I am a Dps cleric and am looking at my end game 2h mace. I want as much Dps as possible and am debating between a weapon with 1750 spell dmg or a weapon with 1450 spell dmg and 1250 valor. I guess my real question is if i have full warlords armor and valor from other items and accessories can I get away with loosing out on 1250 valor in exchange for +300 spell power?
    Since you have Warlord or better gear, the matter about bolstering doesn't come into the picture. I'd go with the Valor, the more the better. Rune your 2H and your range slots for more spell power and spell crit, check the character sheet stats to see what you need (probably Intelligence or Wisdom stat). Enable and use the Runecraft Helper addon when you want to research the best runes for a slot, or to help make a spreadsheet to do an entire runes makeover. You can use the Luxurious type of runes on Warlord level items.

    I went with as much Valor as I could get, and I have 55% mitigation in result. So I live longer, lol. I also went with the Conquest Sigil Focus and the PvP essences. Valor is harder to obtain, Vengeance is easier to get. I made up for the other stat losses by getting new runes. That way I got to have my cake and eat it too.

    Check the PvP vendors for runes that have Valor and Vengeance too.
    Last edited by Taptap; 11-18-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    Since you have Warlord or better gear, the matter about bolstering doesn't come into the picture.
    actually, bolstering is the entire picture.
    he's talking about choosing between a pve weapon, or a pvp weapon.
    if he equips the pve weapon, then when he enters a warfront it will be "bolstered" to a freelancer level weapon - with no rune.

    so his choice is not really a choice. he equips the pvp weapon, and follows the upgrade path.
    the only choice is which pvp weapon (2hander, or 1hander + offhander).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    actually, bolstering is the entire picture.
    he's talking about choosing between a pve weapon, or a pvp weapon.
    if he equips the pve weapon, then when he enters a warfront it will be "bolstered" to a freelancer level weapon - with no rune.

    so his choice is not really a choice. he equips the pvp weapon, and follows the upgrade path.
    the only choice is which pvp weapon (2hander, or 1hander + offhander).
    I wish they'd just spell it out in one sticky, lol. My understanding is that the individual stats provided by bolstering do not take away from any runes or enchants on an item just because it gets bolstered. Instead, if that item has an individual stat that exceeds what bolstering would normally provide then it gets no bolstering on that item for that particular stat, but it does get the stat value given by the rune or enchant along with whatever is on the item. The point is that bolstering just guarantees a minimum stat, it doesn't penalize and reduce a stat just because the existing stat exceeds what bolstering would provide.

    I saw the proof of this myself at Level 60 before I turned PR60. For a while I ran with a PvE Tome in my off-hand slot. Some of its stats exceeded what the Mercenary Tome provided. Those particular stats, according to the character sheet, never changed in or out of a warfront environment - they did not get bolstered to either a higher or lower value at any time because they exceeded what bolstering would have provided. However, any stats that the Mercenary Tome would have provided but the PvE Tome did not were bolstered to what a Mercenary Tome had at the time (Mercenary gear is now discontinued, they made Freelancer gear the bottom level of stats for bolstering now). That is why healers can perform better using PvE gear with stats better than what bolstering provides but die easily because it lacks any Valor beyond what bolstering provides (if any) that comes on the lowest tier of PvP gear (which is now Freelancer).

    My understanding is that bolstering is individual stat adjustments on a piece, not an entire piece adjustment, and no bolstering occurs for the item if the affected stat the item has exceeds what bolstering would otherwise provide for an individual stat for that item. And that is why the boost to individual stats provided by runes or enchants are not reduced just because an item gets one or more stats bolstered in some way.

    You could see the effect yourself on a new level 60 before it reaches PR60. Just get a piece of Freelancer gear and watch your stats change as you swap in and out a "better stats" piece of PvE gear while in a warfront. The PvE gear won't lose a stat value it had before entering a warfront, an individual stat only increases by bolstering if that particular stat on that one item is less than what bolstering will provide. The stat won't decrease. That's why PvE geared players can hit so hard or heal so well compared to Freelancer geared players if their total PvE item stats exceed what bolstering would provide and the impact of Vengeance a PvP piece might provide, but still themselves die so much quicker because they miss Valor a PvP piece might provide to mitigate damage beyond what bolstering would provide if it does for that slot. But playing in PvE gear isn't so great since it can't be upgrade to the next tier of PvE gear either and so it quickly starts becoming inferior in PvP due to the increasing amounts of Vengeance and Valor the total pieces of gear and the tiers of PvP gear provide, and those 2 stats in a PvP environment have the equivalent affect of increasing damage (since Vigilance does increase outgoing damage in PvP, and Valor does decrease incoming damage in PvP, so it eventually hits harder than PvP gear can and you hit more often because the Valor allows being able to live longer and thus do more damage since it mitigates damage). For that reason PvE gear rapidly becomes a liability in PvP environments and bolstering quickly becomes a liability.

    But maybe I still have it all wrong, lol. Regardless, the OP should go with PvP gear like you said and for the reason that it can be upgraded to a piece that, in a PvP environment only, will be better than any PvE piece. Because of Valor and Vengeance.
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  8. #8
    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Default stupid edit timer!

    In next to last paragraph where I said
    so it eventually hits harder than PvP gear can
    it should read
    so it eventually hits harder than PvE gear can
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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    you have it all wrong.

    individual stats are irrelevant, it is the entire piece of equipement that is bolsters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Champion Tengri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taptap View Post
    I wish they'd just spell it out in one sticky, lol. My understanding is that the individual stats provided by bolstering do not take away from any runes or enchants on an item just because it gets bolstered. Instead, if that item has an individual stat that exceeds what bolstering would normally provide then it gets no bolstering on that item for that particular stat, but it does get the stat value given by the rune or enchant along with whatever is on the item. The point is that bolstering just guarantees a minimum stat, it doesn't penalize and reduce a stat just because the existing stat exceeds what bolstering would provide.

    I saw the proof of this myself at Level 60 before I turned PR60. For a while I ran with a PvE Tome in my off-hand slot. Some of its stats exceeded what the Mercenary Tome provided. Those particular stats, according to the character sheet, never changed in or out of a warfront environment - they did not get bolstered to either a higher or lower value at any time because they exceeded what bolstering would have provided. However, any stats that the Mercenary Tome would have provided but the PvE Tome did not were bolstered to what a Mercenary Tome had at the time (Mercenary gear is now discontinued, they made Freelancer gear the bottom level of stats for bolstering now). That is why healers can perform better using PvE gear with stats better than what bolstering provides but die easily because it lacks any Valor beyond what bolstering provides (if any) that comes on the lowest tier of PvP gear (which is now Freelancer).

    My understanding is that bolstering is individual stat adjustments on a piece, not an entire piece adjustment, and no bolstering occurs for the item if the affected stat the item has exceeds what bolstering would otherwise provide for an individual stat for that item. And that is why the boost to individual stats provided by runes or enchants are not reduced just because an item gets one or more stats bolstered in some way.

    You could see the effect yourself on a new level 60 before it reaches PR60. Just get a piece of Freelancer gear and watch your stats change as you swap in and out a "better stats" piece of PvE gear while in a warfront. The PvE gear won't lose a stat value it had before entering a warfront, an individual stat only increases by bolstering if that particular stat on that one item is less than what bolstering will provide. The stat won't decrease. That's why PvE geared players can hit so hard or heal so well compared to Freelancer geared players if their total PvE item stats exceed what bolstering would provide and the impact of Vengeance a PvP piece might provide, but still themselves die so much quicker because they miss Valor a PvP piece might provide to mitigate damage beyond what bolstering would provide if it does for that slot. But playing in PvE gear isn't so great since it can't be upgrade to the next tier of PvE gear either and so it quickly starts becoming inferior in PvP due to the increasing amounts of Vengeance and Valor the total pieces of gear and the tiers of PvP gear provide, and those 2 stats in a PvP environment have the equivalent affect of increasing damage (since Vigilance does increase outgoing damage in PvP, and Valor does decrease incoming damage in PvP, so it eventually hits harder than PvP gear can and you hit more often because the Valor allows being able to live longer and thus do more damage since it mitigates damage). For that reason PvE gear rapidly becomes a liability in PvP environments and bolstering quickly becomes a liability.

    But maybe I still have it all wrong, lol. Regardless, the OP should go with PvP gear like you said and for the reason that it can be upgraded to a piece that, in a PvP environment only, will be better than any PvE piece. Because of Valor and Vengeance.
    Do you ever post anything that isn't a freaking novel.

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    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengri View Post
    Do you ever post anything that isn't a freaking novel.
    You need a 10 page essay to know you should use ****ing pvp gear in pvp.

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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengri View Post
    Do you ever post anything that isn't a freaking novel.
    Naw. The practice might help kids learn to read books and complete their homework assigned in grade school. Have you ever heard a class moan "Wall of text!" when reading a book was a homework assignment? Not something you want to hear. Or maybe you would, what do I know.

    Next time I'll not use line breaks to create paragraphs. That will make it shorter. And no periods, punctuation, spacing after periods (full stops for you Europeans) or mixed case, and I'll not use my spell checker. That should make it less boring for the tortured reader, more of a challenge. Everyone likes a challenge.
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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliekelly View Post
    You need a 10 page essay to know you should use ****ing pvp gear in pvp.
    Good point! I forgot to add even more text at that last paragraph:
    TL;DR:

    Truth is, this subject has already been discussed to death a thousand times in a thousand topics since the game was launched. Devs still hide their responses in a obscure post in the middle of a 50 page topic and in a way that encourages even more questions. Or maybe they deleted the stickie that was made.
    Last edited by Taptap; 11-19-2013 at 06:29 AM.
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    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    you have it all wrong.

    individual stats are irrelevant, it is the entire piece of equipement that is bolsters.
    The above emphasis is mine.

    I have read many claims of that. Except from a dev. And I've not seen screen shot proof that bolstering really means entire replacement of all stats by those from a lowest tier PvP piece of gear. I did read this entire thread, and participated in it back then. Which was in response to a popular at that time claim that bolstering was equivalent to the lowest tier of PvP gear having runes and enchants, so it's not quite the same as the subject of this thread.
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  15. #15
    Ascendant charliekelly's Avatar
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    Stop typing words. Either use pvp gear in pvp, or accept that your gear is changed to the lowest tier pvp gear anyways.

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