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Thread: Rebuffing adds 5-10 seconds onto respawn times so why not just eleminate the timer?

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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Default Rebuffing adds 5-10 seconds onto respawn times so why not just eleminate the timer?

    Eliminating the respawn timer would be a step in the right direction for WFs. Players get back into the action quicker, and those who have lots of buffs to apply will see their downtime cut in half.

    It's already a huge liability to play a class that relies on buffs due to purges ext, but then you have to factor in the liability to your team because if you get sent to the penalty box it takes that much longer for you to get back into action.

    In my humble opinion being defeated and sent back to spawn is still a big enough penalty to deter suicide spammers while rewarding more skilled players who are able to buff on the fly.

    Discuss...

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    Telaran PathOfExile's Avatar
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    I def agree there is an issue with rebuffing. In terms of fairness and equality there's an immediate red flag because some classes have more buffs then others. having to click on 8 buffs is asinine

    They should just re apply your buffs on death...... Purges should also be a duration not perma. The buff and debuff system in rift was birthed in the age of dinosaurs most modern games are doing away with buffing. and why on earth they have ranged spammable debuffing is beyond me.

    i'm not sure spawn timer should be remove there needs to remain some penalty for dying.
    Last edited by PathOfExile; 11-13-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Consider it a pentalty for dying in pvp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    This isn't about a simple penalty, but due to too many buffs and the need to rebuff it impacts entire matches. A team with more players who require buffs is more likely to be forced into a "trickle in" situation where they're stuck waiting on buffers, thus hindering the entire team and almost certain blow-out loss.

    We can't force everyone to play buffless, much like we can't force players to regroup properly or go healing when required. What we can do is lessen the time gap between team members regrouping, thus giving teams that have players with lots of buffs more of a fair chance. Players who rely on fewer buffs still have the advantage of not being so vulnerable to purges.

    That, or my next suggestion is to make buffs even more powerful to justify the time it takes to reapply them, because 5-10 seconds in pvp is an eternity to both yourself and team.

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    Rebuffing is only bad in half the maps, the others don't have mounts so you are done when you get back to the action.

    Respawn timers are pretty necessary, imagine trying to bomb the upper point in KR against even one instantly respawning opponent with a 35m range.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Like i said, rebuffing is a part of the pvp penalty, if you do not want to do it, then do not die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    Like i said, rebuffing is a part of the pvp penalty, if you do not want to do it, then do not die.
    Thank you Mr.L2P your input is very insightful and in-depth. The respawn timer is the penalty in pvp. Rebuffing is an additional penalty for only certain players. This causes imbalance, and hence I created a thread to highlight it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Respawn timers are pretty necessary
    Instead of dealing with the issue of buffing which is more complex server side, I decided to suggest eliminating the respawn timer. We can attack the problem of buffs and just make them all passive if that's what you'd prefer but then purgers would be left out in the cold.

    The thing is people actually like buffing to a degree because it makes them feel more important, more to offer their teams when the reality of the situation is all that buffing costs them matches more often than not. Watch any movie where that one guy has to run back for more gear, or the group is stuck waiting on someone carrying too much gear (aka buffs) and bam, he's a goner and hurting his group.

    You may not understand this reference but as someone with 1500+ hours in L4D2, if you're the kind of player who likes to "go shopping" then you totally screw your team. Players with lots of buffs to reapply inadvertently apply the same logic in RIFT.
    Last edited by Wing man; 11-13-2013 at 10:01 AM.

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    But I buff while running back to the fight.

    ONLY on the maps with mounts does this actually make you reach the ongoing fight slower.

    If you are getting spawn camped, that is the ONLY time that rebuffing is really an issue.

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    Telaran PathOfExile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    But I buff while running back to the fight.

    ONLY on the maps with mounts does this actually make you reach the ongoing fight slower.

    If you are getting spawn camped, that is the ONLY time that rebuffing is really an issue.
    It may not in some cases while it does in some., regardless is annoying and an outdated mechanic.
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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    If you are getting spawn camped, that is the ONLY time that rebuffing is really an issue.
    If you are in the spawn, then rebuffing is an issue period. Every match will have an initial push where one side wipes the other. The side with the majority of players who require more buffs are at an additional disadvantage besides just the respawn timer. 5-10 seconds of extra buffing is the time it takes for that zerg who wiped you in the middle to make it to your spawn and set up shop. Even worse you'll have rushers busting out while rebuffers are behind causing trickle in syndrome.

    All in all it's a very real issue that doesn't cripple game play, but definitely decides the outcome of matches more often than not. I enjoy picking apart the little issues that mean a lot on the meta-level because I'm subtle like that. To think about things affecting the fun of other players they wouldn't even consider and discuss them is quite enjoyable indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wing man View Post
    If you are in the spawn, then rebuffing is an issue period. Every match will have an initial push where one side wipes the other. The side with the majority of players who require more buffs are at an additional disadvantage besides just the respawn timer. 5-10 seconds of extra buffing is the time it takes for that zerg who wiped you in the middle to make it to your spawn and set up shop. Even worse you'll have rushers busting out while rebuffers are behind causing trickle in syndrome.

    All in all it's a very real issue that doesn't cripple game play, but definitely decides the outcome of matches more often than not. I enjoy picking apart the little issues that mean a lot on the meta-level because I'm subtle like that. To think about things affecting the fun of other players they wouldn't even consider and discuss them is quite enjoyable indeed.
    I still don't get it.

    You can buff while moving, it has absolutely 0 effect on how quickly you reach the fight-unless the map either allows mounts or the fight is right next to your spawn.

    If you can't multitask buffing and walking at the same time, then I'm pretty sure I know why you keep ending up in the respawn.

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    Ascendant Wing man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    You can buff while moving.
    1. Not all buffs can be cast on the fly.

    2. You also can't buff while mounted so that screws half the maps for you.

    3. Last but not least, if you're buffing on the run then you're not dpsing/healing leaving you as ineffective as if you were still standing in the spawn.

    Strike three!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    I still don't get it.
    We know, but I have to get back to work now. Thanks for your input!
    Last edited by Wing man; 11-13-2013 at 10:28 AM.

  13. #13
    Telaran PathOfExile's Avatar
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    wtf are you arguing you wanna click on 9 buffs? i don't get it.
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    Your 3)

    Rarely are enemies ever within <insert how long it takes to buff> of your spawn. That's why post respawn buffing rarely ever matters.

    Unless you get purged during a fight, rebuffing wont actually prevent you from being combat effective. Which is why purging is good, it either costs your enemies time or reduces their effectiveness because they didn't notice or don't have time to buff.

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    Plane Walker
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    I don't exactly have an issue with the respawn timer deal. But it does kinda irk me that it can be 10 seconds or sometimes 25? That is annoying, and should be standardized to one set time imo.

    To kind of be on the OP's side here, add in the fact that sometimes a teammates pet spawns with an effect on them that AE's the spawn point so your drawn into combat and can't cast your own GD buffs, ADDING to that delay. That needs to be fixed too.

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