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Thread: WF Premades

  1. #16
    Shadowlander
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    i didn't suggest to remove pre-made groups. I asked for better balancing algorithm.

    if it takes a 4 man pre-made to red, then take 4 for blue, or, assign better geared to blue.

    i'm sure they gonna play around with the sorting rules to have more balanced teams.

  2. #17
    Telaran
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    Well... if you have a high rank (i.e. P90), the new matching system will likely put you with bunch of scrubs (doesn't matter blue or red). Therefore, blame Trion, not the players doing pm.

  3. #18
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astery View Post
    i didn't suggest to remove pre-made groups. I asked for better balancing algorithm.

    if it takes a 4 man pre-made to red, then take 4 for blue, or, assign better geared to blue.

    i'm sure they gonna play around with the sorting rules to have more balanced teams.
    Daglar did say it was going to take a few days for everyone to fall within their ranking limits, lets give it time and see how it feels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  4. #19
    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astery View Post
    i didn't suggest to remove pre-made groups. I asked for better balancing algorithm.

    if it takes a 4 man pre-made to red, then take 4 for blue, or, assign better geared to blue.

    i'm sure they gonna play around with the sorting rules to have more balanced teams.
    That's what the devs are trying to do, and it wasn't something they could twiddle with in PTS because it has to be done on Live. I think you're correct, Astery. Many of the warfront participants think it's still faction vs faction instead of the new reality which is it's really red vs blue now and faction plays little to no role in matchmaking anymore. The matchmaking algorithm is being shanghaied by starting the matches off too soon, making it sometimes impossible for the algorithm to even have premade vs premade in the queue when the match is started and by the time it does get enough to add to the now active warfront it's sometimes too late and the win has already been decided during the time things were NOT matched at the beginning of the warfront. That quick of match starts is defeating the intent of the algorithm, I think. If they botch things up by thinking all is fine as it now is then we'll continue to have uneven matches. Premades are fine when matched against each other, pugs are fine for filling in the team size, mixing them together against each other is probably fine but starting matches too soon jinxes the algorithm and predetermines the win in the warfront match before the matchmaking algorithm can finish its job.

    Being in a premade or not shouldn't matter that much anymore. The matchmaking system can handle it. The new matchmaking system mostly just needs a little more tweaking so it has time to do its job, IMO.
    Last edited by Taptap; 11-13-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  5. #20
    Telaran Mortavius's Avatar
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    Default There is nothing wrong with pre-mades

    Now, before I start.... I play as Octo@faeblight, tom@faeblight, and recently mort@faeblight..... and I am pretty sure some of you remember facing me because it seems no matter what toon I am on, I get focused down. Healing, DPS... doesn't matter: I've pissed many of you off.

    Now, what I am about to say might come as a shock, since I tend to PuG almost exclusively. Here it is: There is NOTHING wrong with pre-mades. In fact, facing pre-mades in PuGs is what made me the pain in the *** that I am today. Facing pre-mades forces you to up your game.

    It is not the fault of pre-mades that you cannot identify and mark threats that need to be burned down. (like enemy healers or peeling dps off of your healers).

    It is not the fault of pre-mades that you cannot get a gameplan going and work with your team-mates. (It's not like we have a minute to discuss strategy before the match begins most times).

    It is not the fault of pre-mades that you cannot win. I've won many times against pre-made groups, much to their chagrin. I've lost to many too. Again, I feel that this is not only a learn to play issue but a sportsmanship issue.

    Some people here seem to want PvP to become like the special Olympics, where every advantage is taken away because they cannot compete. My feeling is this: If you cannot compete, then you are clearly out of your league and need to accept that. There are Major and Minor leagues in sports for a reason, because some players have either greater intelligence and facility for tactics or the rules OR they have a greater natural ability like strength or reflex OR they work better together as a team than most.

    PvP isn't all about you, no matter what you think. It is about the gestalt formed between team-mates. Can our group of guys with our unique strengths beat your group of guys with theirs? That's what it is about. Pre-mades have their strengths and weaknesses, and PuGs have theirs. I've won and lost. People need to get over it. You will NOT win every time.... sometimes, you will not win for days. Sometimes, you'll be on a winning streak for days.

    It isn't you. It is the way you mix with other people; the way you interact that determines the result. No one truly "carries" a team.... instead, it is just a bad mix. People need to get over themselves and just have fun. It isn't as much about winning as it is about becoming better than you were before.

    We learn more about what we do wrong from our defeats than we do from our victories. Savor both, because Joy comes from winning, but Wisdom comes from losing. Both are equally valuable.

    And that is why many of you mark me and others to get burned down on sight.... because we've already learned this lesson and applied it to become more fearsome opponents instead of whining on the forums and calling for nerfs to everything just because we feel we are the best and should always win.

    You should follow that example, and then you too will come to know the joys of being focused fired wherever you step.

    AE's are interested in the PvE aspect of a game more than anything else. The AE thrives as a solo adventurer, counting coup with each new destination and discovery, poking into every corner of a map and toying with each nuance of a game mechanic.

  6. #21
    General of Telara Dahliablood's Avatar
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    LF some homies.
    Awesome game. #1 PvP.

  7. #22
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortavius View Post
    Now, before I start.... I play as Octo@faeblight, tom@faeblight, and recently mort@faeblight..... and I am pretty sure some of you remember facing me because it seems no matter what toon I am on, I get focused down. Healing, DPS... doesn't matter: I've pissed many of you off.

    Now, what I am about to say might come as a shock, since I tend to PuG almost exclusively. Here it is: There is NOTHING wrong with pre-mades. In fact, facing pre-mades in PuGs is what made me the pain in the *** that I am today. Facing pre-mades forces you to up your game.

    It is not the fault of pre-mades that you cannot identify and mark threats that need to be burned down. (like enemy healers or peeling dps off of your healers).

    It is not the fault of pre-mades that you cannot get a gameplan going and work with your team-mates. (It's not like we have a minute to discuss strategy before the match begins most times).

    It is not the fault of pre-mades that you cannot win. I've won many times against pre-made groups, much to their chagrin. I've lost to many too. Again, I feel that this is not only a learn to play issue but a sportsmanship issue.

    Some people here seem to want PvP to become like the special Olympics, where every advantage is taken away because they cannot compete. My feeling is this: If you cannot compete, then you are clearly out of your league and need to accept that. There are Major and Minor leagues in sports for a reason, because some players have either greater intelligence and facility for tactics or the rules OR they have a greater natural ability like strength or reflex OR they work better together as a team than most.

    PvP isn't all about you, no matter what you think. It is about the gestalt formed between team-mates. Can our group of guys with our unique strengths beat your group of guys with theirs? That's what it is about. Pre-mades have their strengths and weaknesses, and PuGs have theirs. I've won and lost. People need to get over it. You will NOT win every time.... sometimes, you will not win for days. Sometimes, you'll be on a winning streak for days.

    It isn't you. It is the way you mix with other people; the way you interact that determines the result. No one truly "carries" a team.... instead, it is just a bad mix. People need to get over themselves and just have fun. It isn't as much about winning as it is about becoming better than you were before.

    We learn more about what we do wrong from our defeats than we do from our victories. Savor both, because Joy comes from winning, but Wisdom comes from losing. Both are equally valuable.

    And that is why many of you mark me and others to get burned down on sight.... because we've already learned this lesson and applied it to become more fearsome opponents instead of whining on the forums and calling for nerfs to everything just because we feel we are the best and should always win.

    You should follow that example, and then you too will come to know the joys of being focused fired wherever you step.
    I would not refer to myself as special, but i'm regulary singled out for some reason, I wonder why that is
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  8. #23
    Champion robbinthehoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunzip View Post
    I would not refer to myself as special, but i'm regulary singled out for some reason, I wonder why that is
    Because you usually need to be peeled off my heals?
    robbinthehoodz@Greybriar

  9. #24
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbinthehoodz View Post
    Because you usually need to be peeled off my heals?
    But I never get any heals myself
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  10. #25
    Rift Disciple
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    Here is the way this problem has been addressd so far as I understand it:

    1. Try to match large premades against large premades. If fail... then after a significant wait, start trying to build team with premade vs pugs but...
    2. If a premade is matched with pugs try to match up the ratings on either side. Often a premade is filled out with really low rated players to balance it out

    That scheme does not always make up for the coordination a premade can have that pugs do not. But I don't really see Trion able to say no to premades > 2 players and therefore the game has to be matched up some way or no games would occur and we'd all just sit in queue wishing our play style matched with everyone else in the queue.

  11. #26
    Ascendant Taptap's Avatar
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    lol

    They got the matchmaking set so if "Team A" has a premade (of any kind or size) then it tries to have "Team B" also have a premade of near matched rating. That's the advantage of red vs blue. People need to premade for the reason they say (not their real reasons lol) which is to play with friends. If they get the premade part working right, and I think it is but sometimes needs more time to assemble people because of whatever reasons, then it can fill in the rest of the team size with again nearly matched solo pugs. It's a great system, except for those who really are looking only to steamroll haha. Stop thinking about premades as a way to steamroll, they can't steamroll if the matchmaking puts a matched premade against them. Things have changed - or will when they get it working right and I think that's now mostly a matter of how soon they actually start a warfront that determines if the new red vs blue matchmaking system can have enough time to do its job or not. Sorry pug rollers, pugs are fillers for matched competition against premades now when they tweak the matchmaking system a bit more. Live with it and enjoy your new competition!
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  12. #27
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortavius View Post
    Now, before I start.... I play as Octo@faeblight, tom@faeblight, and recently mort@faeblight..... and I am pretty sure some of you remember facing me because it seems no matter what toon I am on, I get focused down. Healing, DPS... doesn't matter:
    I've noticed you on Octo@faeblight and added you to my always kill first list. not because you annoyed me or seemed excessively effective, but because I noticed that i got bigger crits on you...

    now, on to the topic at hand...

    I've said this many times, and i say it every time there is a premade QQ thread... the average pug player is an idiot.
    if you can address that issue, the premade problem will become null and void. a premade wont be half as effective vs a team of players that have a clue vs a team of idiots.

    addressing the idiot problem might seem impossible, but i will offer at least one suggestion here: force idiots to form premades. make a premade only queue for warfronts, and remove all other queues! force them to make friends. because sociable people have bigger brains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  13. #28
    Champion robbinthehoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    TIL I have a tiny brain.
    robbinthehoodz@Greybriar

  14. #29
    Telaran Mortavius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    I've noticed you on Octo@faeblight and added you to my always kill first list. not because you annoyed me or seemed excessively effective, but because I noticed that i got bigger crits on you...

    now, on to the topic at hand...

    I've said this many times, and i say it every time there is a premade QQ thread... the average pug player is an idiot.
    if you can address that issue, the premade problem will become null and void. a premade wont be half as effective vs a team of players that have a clue vs a team of idiots.

    addressing the idiot problem might seem impossible, but i will offer at least one suggestion here: force idiots to form premades. make a premade only queue for warfronts, and remove all other queues! force them to make friends. because sociable people have bigger brains.

    I had to sacrifice durability heal power. Ah well, everything comes with trade offs.
    Last edited by Mortavius; 11-14-2013 at 09:51 AM.

    AE's are interested in the PvE aspect of a game more than anything else. The AE thrives as a solo adventurer, counting coup with each new destination and discovery, poking into every corner of a map and toying with each nuance of a game mechanic.

  15. #30
    Champion Tengri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahliablood View Post
    LF some homies.
    Log on and run premades with us then

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