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Thread: The new PvP meta.

  1. #1
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Default The new PvP meta.

    Warlord targets you from 34m, not only can you not CC this Warlord (who can CC you) but you cant even get into casting range without being pulled regardless of whether you're a mage, cleric or rogue ranged spec.

    Warlord pulls you.

    You are now in a mob of angry melee's, you are charged and rooted in place, an assassin pops out of stealth and begins passively snaring you every second.

    You have two choices:

    a) Use your primary escape utility
    b) Use your primary escape utility, along with the 2m cooldown to reset that ability to use it again.
    c) Die to mob of angry melees

    If you chose:

    a) GG, your primary escape utility doesnt actually provide enough of a mobility enhancement in order to escape the warlord targetting you, you get pulled again and are yet again in the crowd of angry melee's.

    b) You escaped! Temporarily though, and don't think about getting back into range to actually contribute any damage whatsoever because if you do, you'll get pulled and all your cooldowns won't have reset. so GG you can't engage in combat for 2m.

    c) The most likely outcome, if you chose this - Congrats! - you selected correctly.

    What about healing though?

    Well, unfortunately, you just got pulled 34m forward, if you were just behind the frontline of your team (as you HAVE to be in order to be in range) then that means your healers (Who were probably situated a good 8m behind) are now 42m away from you which means you wont be healed. And if the healer is rather kind he can attempt to run forward a good amount which then leads to:

    A warlord targets your healer

    Your healer has been pulled and is now inside a pack of angry melees.

    Basically what im suggesting is, there is no counter to this, and given the current broken state of pulls (34m, 8s cooldown, 5s damage reduction with a 61 Warlord 15 tempest spec) you're doomed regardless of what range spec you play, there is no effective method to kite anymore.

    Every counter to being pulled is on a much higher cooldown to the pull ability, and as immunity from pulls is around 4-8s the you can effectively be pulled 3 times before your most basic escape utility has refreshed.

    Throw a tactician into the mix with permanent AoE snaring, or a couple of assassins and its basically GG for any spec except healers which will be severely hindered to the point of being absolutely useless as anything other than a meat shield for the team.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Working as intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Warlord targets you from 34m, not only can you not CC this Warlord (who can CC you) but you cant even get into casting range without being pulled regardless of whether you're a mage, cleric or rogue ranged spec.

    Warlord pulls you.

    You are now in a mob of angry melee's, you are charged and rooted in place, an assassin pops out of stealth and begins passively snaring you every second.

    You have two choices:

    a) Use your primary escape utility
    b) Use your primary escape utility, along with the 2m cooldown to reset that ability to use it again.
    c) Die to mob of angry melees

    If you chose:

    a) GG, your primary escape utility doesnt actually provide enough of a mobility enhancement in order to escape the warlord targetting you, you get pulled again and are yet again in the crowd of angry melee's.

    b) You escaped! Temporarily though, and don't think about getting back into range to actually contribute any damage whatsoever because if you do, you'll get pulled and all your cooldowns won't have reset. so GG you can't engage in combat for 2m.

    c) The most likely outcome, if you chose this - Congrats! - you selected correctly.

    What about healing though?

    Well, unfortunately, you just got pulled 34m forward, if you were just behind the frontline of your team (as you HAVE to be in order to be in range) then that means your healers (Who were probably situated a good 8m behind) are now 42m away from you which means you wont be healed. And if the healer is rather kind he can attempt to run forward a good amount which then leads to:

    A warlord targets your healer

    Your healer has been pulled and is now inside a pack of angry melees.

    Basically what im suggesting is, there is no counter to this, and given the current broken state of pulls (34m, 8s cooldown, 5s damage reduction with a 61 Warlord 15 tempest spec) you're doomed regardless of what range spec you play, there is no effective method to kite anymore.

    Every counter to being pulled is on a much higher cooldown to the pull ability, and as immunity from pulls is around 4-8s the you can effectively be pulled 3 times before your most basic escape utility has refreshed.

    Throw a tactician into the mix with permanent AoE snaring, or a couple of assassins and its basically GG for any spec except healers which will be severely hindered to the point of being absolutely useless as anything other than a meat shield for the team.
    You could do all this before 2.5


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    So Warlords are basically unkitable and any ranged class against them are doomed even 1v1 because there is no escape. I've fought a few Warlords and I've died every 1v1 fight I've been in with them as a ranged class. I've only been playing for about a month and a half so it's not like I had amazing skill but there was no way around the pulls and not able to CC. I have a Pyromage and if I can't do at least 1 CC to my target whether it's a root,snare or Disarm ability I'm forced to fight him man to man in melee and that usually results in my death. How about a melee V Warlords? I don't think it's a bad idea to have 1 soul to be able to take out ranged classes because there's only usually 1 in any WF I've ever been in and I really do nothing but WF all day.

  5. #5
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintho View Post
    So Warlords are basically unkitable and any ranged class against them are doomed even 1v1 because there is no escape. I've fought a few Warlords and I've died every 1v1 fight I've been in with them as a ranged class. I've only been playing for about a month and a half so it's not like I had amazing skill but there was no way around the pulls and not able to CC. I have a Pyromage and if I can't do at least 1 CC to my target whether it's a root,snare or Disarm ability I'm forced to fight him man to man in melee and that usually results in my death. How about a melee V Warlords? I don't think it's a bad idea to have 1 soul to be able to take out ranged classes because there's only usually 1 in any WF I've ever been in and I really do nothing but WF all day.
    Im not talking about 1v1, even though they are highly competetive at 1v1, its the crowd focus firing the person being pulled that is the problem.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candoalot View Post
    You could do all this before 2.5
    Yeah, well aware, the problem is now they are buffing melee (and sins lawl??!) even more.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
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  7. #7
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    This is honestly my favorite thing in scion. I play melee, and this allows me to get pulled in, kill a couple people with my 1min cd aoe burst, then teleport out. Been getting more kills than a squishy melee rogue should be allowed to get in scion lately.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Yeah, well aware, the problem is now they are buffing melee (and sins lawl??!) even more.
    the buffs only apply to pve for assassin, the only pvp buff is for bladedancer, which is the most horrible rogue pvp specc to this date, and even after the changes, it will still be horrible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Im not talking about 1v1, even though they are highly competetive at 1v1, its the crowd focus firing the person being pulled that is the problem.
    Hmm, well I have no solution. Maybe a bigger timer on the pull CD? Because every 8s he can pull a team member in for a kill. Great utility to have in your WF group but maybe a little OP? Idk. If anything I'd say to increase the CD to 1 min instead of 8s. Because in less then a minute he's pulled 7 people into his group of angry melee and casters included and most likely 5 out of 7 have died

  10. #10
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Yeah if you're playing a melee spec all is well and good but playing a ranged spec is basically impossible if the enemy team knows what they are doing with a warlord spamming a /tar -> pull macro.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Yeah if you're playing a melee spec all is well and good but playing a ranged spec is basically impossible if the enemy team knows what they are doing with a warlord spamming a /tar -> pull macro.
    The pull mechanic is fine, it adds a nice strategy to the game, and keeps ranged players on their toes, they should always be aware of LoS objects and take advantage of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  12. #12
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintho View Post
    Hmm, well I have no solution. Maybe a bigger timer on the pull CD? Because every 8s he can pull a team member in for a kill. Great utility to have in your WF group but maybe a little OP? Idk. If anything I'd say to increase the CD to 1 min instead of 8s. Because in less then a minute he's pulled 7 people into his group of angry melee and casters included and most likely 5 out of 7 have died
    The solution is that really warrior pulls are meant to be capped, so if you overextend like an idiot you deserve to get pulled.

    At the moment though, long range training from tempest (which is only supposed to affect damaging ranged attacks) is also affecting seargents order stacking up to a total of 34m.

    Its one of those long ignored warrior bugs that hasnt been addressed, a little like how rift implosion is entirely uncleansable even though its a purple debuff.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Yeah, well aware, the problem is now they are buffing melee (and sins lawl??!) even more.
    I play a 56 Sin/RB/MM rogue and we have amazing burst damage and pretty good sustainable damage even after our burst but keeping up with people in PVP to stay within sufficient melee range is a skill all on it's on. That's why I use MM as a secondary for the extra DPS when they are able to get away.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintho View Post
    I play a 56 Sin/RB/MM rogue and we have amazing burst damage and pretty good sustainable damage even after our burst but keeping up with people in PVP to stay within sufficient melee range is a skill all on it's on. That's why I use MM as a secondary for the extra DPS when they are able to get away.
    RB? /10characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    The solution is that really warrior pulls are meant to be capped, so if you overextend like an idiot you deserve to get pulled.

    At the moment though, long range training from tempest (which is only supposed to affect damaging ranged attacks) is also affecting seargents order stacking up to a total of 34m.

    Its one of those long ignored warrior bugs that hasnt been addressed, a little like how rift implosion is entirely uncleansable even though its a purple debuff.
    Usually, I like being hit with Rift Implosion cause it means I take 0 damage for however long the effect lasts and gives me time to think what I"m gonna do next. I don't even waste a CC break with it. But, I don't understand they reason they haven't made it cleansable.

    34m is a long range to be pulled from, I'm not positive on my Pyro's range but it's long. I've been amazing at how for the range is on my Fireball. Although, I'm not sure what Seargents Order is cause I haven't had the chance to play past lvl 20 as a War but bring the CD to 1 min. instead of 8s sounds plausible to me.

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