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Thread: remove Karthan Ridge domination from the game...

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default remove Karthan Ridge domination from the game...

    .. or make it only available for non-stealth speccs!

    discuss pls
    Last edited by Khamet; 10-29-2013 at 04:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamet View Post
    .. or make it only available for non-stealth speccs!

    discuss pls
    Get ganked one too many times by Rogues? Happens, its how we handle it that matters. Their is nothing wrong with stealthers or the map. The problem lies with you potentially not asking for help or receiving help when asked for to secure a spot. Could also be you weren't getting heals or near a healer to be healed.
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker Stirby's Avatar
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    The only flags that are really vulnerable to sins are the far ones on either side. No one who is already alive really wants to walk all that way. If respawns would learn to take their flag back instead of heading straight for middle, it wouldn't be that much of a problem. Switch your spec to do it, if you have to.
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    nah im always prepared, thats not the problem! And i didnt got ganked by sins.

    My concern are the sins in my team who just waste one spot in our team while guarding a pile of nothing in nowhere :S

  5. #5
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    only problem I have with the map is when i'm on a team full of rogues, and not a single one is assassin. or if there is an assassin, its derping at mid.

    I see that map lost more often due to lack of assassins than lack of heals.


    on the flip side, i'm a warrior and you will usually find me at earth focus.

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  6. #6
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamet View Post
    .. or make it only available for non-stealth speccs!

    discuss pls

    Stealth does ruin this map... the inability to mount and the huge separation and number of flags... good thing its an integral part to the most OP pvp spec in the game.

    I've always been a fan of simply removing stealth from pvp. If they aren't going to keep it in consideration when balancing then just get rid of it.

  7. #7
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    Karthan was a bad map choice for a domination game mode, you can't mount, the map is large(original game type funnels the action) and more importantly, it's basically got one giant choke point. BG domination isn't much better, a capture point map shouldn't funnel all the action through a single area. Port scion without npcs would have been a better domination map, assuming the dirt piles got removed.

  8. #8
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldern View Post
    Karthan was a bad map choice for a domination game mode, you can't mount, the map is large(original game type funnels the action) and more importantly, it's basically got one giant choke point. BG domination isn't much better, a capture point map shouldn't funnel all the action through a single area. Port scion without npcs would have been a better domination map, assuming the dirt piles got removed.
    Agree completely. Port Scion was the correct answer there. And the decision to disallow mounts is a baffling one. Codex is a smaller map, and allows them.

    I am unhappy with a group PvP map design that punishes group PvP. "Split up and play your soloing spec" shoudn't be a directive in any warfont. There is already a place for soloers using soloing specs to solo. The entire world, on a PvP server.
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  9. #9
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    uh, targets far away make them strategic points, with targets near together and mounting ability, you can do the whole map deathmatch in center anyway...

    but i guess that's what most players want anyway, objective based maps have no lobby anymore it seems.
    Last edited by Antigonos; 10-29-2013 at 07:50 AM.

  10. #10
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    I don't mind being ganked by rogues at objectives so much...its when they don't even bother to fight and just wait until I leave and then recapture that I start to wonder why stealth is allowed in pvp at all...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    uh, targets far away make them strategic points, with targets near together and mounting ability, you can do the whole map deathmatch in center anyway...

    but i guess that's what most players want anyway, objective based maps have no lobby anymore it seems.
    Far away is fine, the issue is that both KR and BG have one area that a group can cover and basically block an enemy team, if the walls in front of the BG spawns were gone, or if the center of KR was wider(take out the wreckage) in just the Dom game modes, that's a whole different story. Or allow mounts, otherwise 90% of the game is just stealhers sneaking past whichever team is stronger camping in the middle.

    BG isn't quite as bad since when you respawn you have multiple path options, the problem is you lose many of those options after spawning.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    Also:

    The map design makes it a great strategy for assassins to stand invisible near a flag, wait for any defenders to get bored and leave, flip the flag, and repeat. Making important strategic elements out of standing, waiting, and boredom probably isn't the healthiest thing for gameplay.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    Also:

    The map design makes it a great strategy for assassins to stand invisible near a flag, wait for any defenders to get bored and leave, flip the flag, and repeat. Making important strategic elements out of standing, waiting, and boredom probably isn't the healthiest thing for gameplay.
    I don't like that they made stealth infallible, you should be able to spot them at a relatively close distance, and not the 1/2 meter it is currently.

    I liked that in WAR there was a stat that made your stealth view distance further, and I liked when rift had utility options with stealth detection(beast master and defensive Mage pvp tree). I think the game could benefit from properly placed/timed stealth detection in under-utilized specs. Because right now "stealth detection" is "did my random aoe spam put me in combat"

  14. #14
    Ascendant Violacea's Avatar
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    Whoa wait, you mean the team might have to spread out and try to demonstrate map control? Crazy. I thought you just slung carnage in the middle and capped a flag every now and then for the win.

    On another note, teams are so bad at noticing caps. It goes beyond stealth being a useful tool and a team being full of dumb-dumbs when you watch them get distracted for a kill ~25m away from a cap point, then cap the flag while watching 5 - 10 players gun down someone running away. Actually won a codex sort of like this recently. It was close the whole way, but around ~600ish marks of points, I saw about 8 people guarding the codex all chase some player downside the guardian rocks. Second I saw all their backs to me I capped it and they didn't turn around in time.

    Even in KR, I am not sure where this complain comes from. It can help and be against you. Is stealth too good because it makes guardian flags easier? Or is it bad because it makes capping them easier. Because I'm pretty sure stealth is much more moot if someone is actually guarding a flag. But heaven forbid someone wants to hold a point of map control they will probably get slandered for doing nothing when in fact it is the counter to the issue everyone is complaining about here. Also, with recon vials running you can either go be a defender or often show-down with whoever capped it if they didn't run away. I am pretty sure you can be just about at the middle of the map and with a zoomed out minimap see blips on your radar all the way to the back flags. You can certain just visually see the Guard/Defiant paths from the middle. There is no reason stealth would make this unreasonable unless people are just going to choose to be unreasonable to begin with. So yes, complain about stealth flag caps while people fight at the middle and near clusters.

    This is where this game just gets all dynamic thrown out the window. Actually try to counter people and strategies instead of just removing an aspect of the game that carries out a type of strat. Even as a rogue, when I cap flags and it is 'lonely and silent', I almost always cap it 25% - 50% and interrupt myself and cast a CC AoE. You'd be surprised how many times the rogue I was anticipating was actually right there. But from what I recall even starting playing this game, people don't even recognize strat. I've done silly gimmicky things like stealth saps, un-needed slip aways to conserve hp, etc to keep 2 - 3 people from capping a flag. I always love it that after 30s of my gimmicks and keeping 3 people trying to click a flag at bay from doing so, they call me the newb when I die. Funny, you just lost a cap point to 1 rogue busting your chops. My strat went as planned tbh.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamet View Post
    nah im always prepared, thats not the problem! And i didnt got ganked by sins.

    My concern are the sins in my team who just waste one spot in our team while guarding a pile of nothing in nowhere :S
    A good Sin guards the back caps or takes the opposing teams back caps ensuring two caps always belong to your team. This is very important to this map.
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