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Thread: Nerf assassins

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soboboo View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=3408/crippling-poison since 2004. Used to be 70% too. Passive snares are unheard of.

    Let me ask you this- in a game driven by macros, what is skillful application of an ability type with a cooldown and no DR? Quite a few abilities are used passively by most PvPers mashing them macros, so hey, off that high horse.
    Ever heard of GCD and DR?
    /back on high horse.

  2. #122
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    The fact that the main crying point of this thread is the snare portion of the drain portion tells me that Rift isn't ready to have "competitive" melee builds. If half these people played Rift near release they'd know how lucky(or unlucky) they are that melee builds have been castrated and that ranged is far more rewarding(and far less risky) than any melee build out there currently.

    Every melee had a spammable snare with high duration and no DR, with FAR stronger potency than 30% and dealt more damage once in melee than ranged were capable of, unlike now(crap like shockpulse didn't exist though, and disconnects for the most part were disconnects). I played ranged, and you know what? It was still rewarding to be ranged even with all these "melee advantages" because melee was still melee, and positioning advantages will never apply to that archetype.

    Cry about the drain, sure, it's a unique mechanic to the sin class but snares? This is why Rift is casual.
    Last edited by Soboboo; 09-23-2013 at 06:31 AM.

  3. #123
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    Those darn casuals! Relaxing and enjoying their videogames!
    Even free cost too much now

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by slash_wrists View Post
    the amount of mana a sinn can take in such a short amount of time is ridiculous.
    I wouldn't mind getting my mana drain if the rogue was simply a better player than me
    3% mana per second @ 100% proc rate (guess what its not 100% proc rate) = 33 seconds to fully drain someone, at 100% proc rate. Actual proc rate is what? 60%? So we're looking at 45s~ to drain your mana? Sorry thats... too fast? How long does it take for a dom to drain your mana? If you think 45s is fast, considering the rate at which you're able to restore mana..... Then perhaps every rogue is simply a better player than you. Please explain to me how player skill factors into how fast your mana is being drained on a passive proc? Where in the hell would player skill ever factor into this?

    Your argument is about a poison thats been around for a looooooong time. The only reason people are whining now is because its a snare too.
    Last edited by Skaleek; 09-23-2013 at 06:54 AM.

  5. #125
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    I have no problems with snares associated with skills that are on a cooldown, even if the cooldown is the duration of the snare, especially if the snare can be cleansed. Skill is used, snare is applied, cooldown starts and the target will either remain snared or use a GCD to cleanse the snare. Cooldown skill snares can be countered, counters are a good thing.

    Passive snare is bad. There is no counter for it.

    In PvP situations it could be argued that the assassin soul is the "counter" to all healing souls. I don't have a problem with that, if one assassin could lock-down and "take out of the fight" one healer, neutralizing the healer's ability to fulfill the role of keeping the green bars of their teammates full, then it is a counter. As has been said too many times in this thread already, the issue is that the assassin is now more than a counter to a healer.

    I don't doubt that it takes a certain level of player skill to effectively play any soul, but there is no denying that some souls can be hard-hitting in the hands of the skill-less. Assassin is, currently, one such soul. It is faceroll simple for the unskilled assassin to dominate an average skilled healer, is that good design?

    Let all those bad assassins get more time under their belts, and have a better understanding of the soul/rotation so that their skill level becomes average or above average and these comments will all cease, as people will stop playing healers in PvP. Nobody likes to play an ineffective role.

  6. #126
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    Complaining about the wrong things as usual.


    PS: http://www.rifthead.com/ability/7720...twilight-force /thread

  7. #127
    Plane Touched Skaleek's Avatar
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    An option might be to make the snare last something like 2-3 seconds, so if the sin isnt constantly applying it, or the person being snared blinks, LOS, removes the sins poison buff, it quickly expires...
    Last edited by Skaleek; 09-23-2013 at 07:13 AM.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaleek View Post
    3% mana per second @ 100% proc rate (guess what its not 100% proc rate) = 33 seconds to fully drain someone, at 100% proc rate. Actual proc rate is what? 60%? So we're looking at 45s~ to drain your mana? Sorry thats... too fast? How long does it take for a dom to drain your mana? If you think 45s is fast, considering the rate at which you're able to restore mana..... Then perhaps every rogue is simply a better player than you. Please explain to me how player skill factors into how fast your mana is being drained on a passive proc? Where in the hell would player skill ever factor into this?

    Your argument is about a poison thats been around for a looooooong time. The only reason people are whining now is because its a snare too.
    It takes 15 seconds of supplification to regain full mana so a third of that time. Now take into the fact the sin is dealing a ton of damage and the snare is making it impossible for us to kite the other melees attacking us too so we're blowing cd's left and right and using crucial frequently. We are now out of mana in about 12 seconds if we are alive that long.

    The point of this thread is that sin has multiple very powerful things that no other soul has:
    1. Perma stealth
    2. Perma snare
    3. Passive mana drain
    4. 6s stun of omgwtfbbq

    They deal the ST damage of any other build, perma snare increases everyone elses damage and makes escaping / los stupid hard, they drain mana faster than a dom, and if your break free is on cd you can forget it.
    Last edited by TadaceAce; 09-23-2013 at 07:21 AM.

  9. #129
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    You mean healers need to have someone peel off attackers instead of face tank them now?
    Even free cost too much now

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    You mean healers need to have someone peel off attackers instead of face tank them now?
    One healer face tanking one DPS, only doing self-heals, both players negating each others contribution to the team is, IMO, balanced.

    So, what you are saying is that healers now need to run with pocket DPS?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Crios View Post
    Ever heard of GCD and DR?
    /back on high horse.
    i dont think there was DR on warrior hamstring back when i played

    from the wiki

    Hamstring is a 10 Rage skill that slows an enemy target 50%. The snare effect lasts 15 seconds and the only cooldown on the ability is the generic global cooldown, so in a PvP battle you should make sure hamstring is constantly applied, as competent PvP players move around a lot.

    and theres a glyph that makes it cost nothing every other use

    oh and

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Improved_Hamstring
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 09-23-2013 at 08:22 AM.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    It takes 15 seconds of supplification to regain full mana so a third of that time. Now take into the fact the sin is dealing a ton of damage and the snare is making it impossible for us to kite the other melees attacking us too so we're blowing cd's left and right and using crucial frequently. We are now out of mana in about 12 seconds if we are alive that long.

    The point of this thread is that sin has multiple very powerful things that no other soul has:
    1. Perma stealth
    2. Perma snare
    3. Passive mana drain
    4. 6s stun of omgwtfbbq

    They deal the ST damage of any other build, perma snare increases everyone elses damage and makes escaping / los stupid hard, they drain mana faster than a dom, and if your break free is on cd you can forget it.
    12s, usually a sin is lucky to be alive that long in the back lines of a 15v15 or 20v20 wf. I think healers are just really used to being able to face tank DPS and not caring. In fact, thats what 99% of the healers currently do in pvp. Very few kite, LOS, and generally play conservatively.

    When a 61 sin jumps you chances are they'll die before they can drain your mana in 12 seconds(36% of your mana-3% per second for 12 seconds @ 100% proc rate, meaning 64% was used by you alone, which means you blow through all your mana in 18s?), because it means youre blowing your mana faster than they're draining it, in which case its YOU that is detrimental to your mana. Im sorry but i actually don't think that's the way the events play out in pvp.

    Im no cleric expert, but I know for a fact most clerics dont lose all their mana in less than 20 seconds, just sayin'.

    Regardless, I suggested lowering the snare time on debil poison to half of what it is currently, to allow for windows of escape, what are your suggestions for balancing sins? Keyword is balancing. Not removing them from being able to dethrone a stationary sentinel healer spamming a macro.

    I personally rarely use debil poison as i dont think i can survive long enough on a healer to effectively drain its mana. I find myself more often using leeching and enfeeble, cause i play sin as a 1v1 artist. Id much rather go to a MM spec to kill a healer than a sin.
    Last edited by Skaleek; 09-23-2013 at 08:27 AM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaleek View Post
    12s, usually a sin is lucky to be alive that long in the back lines of a 15v15 or 20v20 wf. I think healers are just really used to being able to face tank DPS and not caring. In fact, thats what 99% of the healers currently do in pvp. Very few kite, LOS, and generally play conservatively.

    When a 61 sin jumps you chances are they'll die before they can drain your mana in 12 seconds(36% of your mana-3% per second for 12 seconds @ 100% proc rate, meaning 64% was used by you alone, which means you blow through all your mana in 18s?), because it means youre blowing your mana faster than they're draining it, in which case its YOU that is detrimental to your mana. Im sorry but i actually don't think that's the way the events play out in pvp.

    Im no cleric expert, but I know for a fact most clerics dont lose all their mana in less than 20 seconds, just sayin'.

    Regardless, I suggested lowering the snare time on debil poison to half of what it is currently, to allow for windows of escape, what are your suggestions for balancing sins? Keyword is balancing. Not removing them from being able to dethrone a stationary sentinel healer spamming a macro.

    I personally rarely use debil poison as i dont think i can survive long enough on a healer to effectively drain its mana. I find myself more often using leeching and enfeeble, cause i play sin as a 1v1 artist. Id much rather go to a MM spec to kill a healer than a sin.
    pretty much this if a sin has 12 seconds to attack you uninterrupted without being killed or forced to slip/retreat your team is bad, they are getting pocket healed, or you are positioned poorly.
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 09-23-2013 at 08:33 AM.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    pretty much this if a sin has 12 seconds to attack you uninterrupted without being killed or forced to slip/retreat your team is bad, they are getting pocket healed, or you are positioned poorly.
    Well, there is the matter of swift shot proccing every poison, but yeah.

  15. #135
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    pretty much this if a sin has 12 seconds to attack you uninterrupted without being killed or forced to slip/retreat your team is bad, they are getting pocket healed, or you are positioned poorly.

    What is the difference in the argument of the sin getting killed versus a healer getting killed? Its not like their life automatically starts draining when they attack a healer.. we have to pull our dps off their healer to attack the sin... this defeats the point. Then your healer just heals the sin instead of themself..

    So we need a sin to counter your sin to save our healer? Its not like sins are any squishier than every other build in pvp so how is this argument for sins and not just some generic garbage?

    The whole dps needs to protect the healers thing is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard. The game is kill their healers before they kill yours.. if you are splitting damage between their healers and the dps attacking your healers then nothing is ever going to die and you are the reason your team isn't getting any kills.
    Last edited by TadaceAce; 09-23-2013 at 09:17 AM.

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