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Thread: Nerf assassins

  1. #136
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soboboo View Post
    Well, there is the matter of swift shot proccing every poison, but yeah.
    and theres never any MMs on your team to purge them right? i usually tab through and purge all the rogues on the other team at the start, nobody ever re-buffs.
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 09-23-2013 at 09:23 AM.

  2. #137
    Plane Touched Skaleek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    The whole dps needs to protect the healers thing is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard. The game is kill their healers before they kill yours.. if you are splitting damage between their healers and the dps attacking your healers then nothing is ever going to die and you are the reason your team isn't getting any kills.
    Have you ever heard of peeling? What are your suggestions for balancing sins? How can we make your healing experience more enjoyable and less stressful?

  3. #138
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    What is the difference in the argument of the sin getting killed versus a healer getting killed? Its not like their life automatically starts draining when they attack a healer.. we have to pull our dps off their healer to attack the sin... this defeats the point. Then your healer just heals the sin instead of themself..

    So we need a sin to counter your sin to save our healer? Its not like sins are any squishier than every other build in pvp so how is this argument for sins and not just some generic garbage?

    The whole dps needs to protect the healers thing is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard. The game is kill their healers before they kill yours.. if you are splitting damage between their healers and the dps attacking your healers then nothing is ever going to die and you are the reason your team isn't getting any kills.
    um what? if I'm in MM spec and i see a sin in our back lines on a healer, if they healer is smart he will continue moving further back so the sin is out of his own healers range. 1 or 2 purges from me and now the sin is just tickling the cleric and draining nothing. I can then either continue back to dpsing high priority targets and let him get laughed at by the cleric or spend one rotation andforce him to slip away. or a warrior can drop back and kill him in 3 seconds.

    if you are in a big fight say at codex and a single sin can kill a cleric by himself, the cleric is bad/undergeared or your team is bad.
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 09-23-2013 at 09:28 AM.

  4. #139
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinnesteuer View Post
    One healer face tanking one DPS, only doing self-heals, both players negating each others contribution to the team is, IMO, balanced.

    So, what you are saying is that healers now need to run with pocket DPS?
    I'm saying that just maybe it's okay if the healer has to take a second to ask a DPS on their own team to come get an enemy DPS off of them instead of the healer ignoring the only DPS on the other team that isn't attacking the 42K health tank for several minutes while said healer bunny hops their way to where ever they care to go.
    Even free cost too much now

  5. #140
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaleek View Post
    Have you ever heard of peeling? What are your suggestions for balancing sins? How can we make your healing experience more enjoyable and less stressful?
    Remove the permanent snare so that sins are now only 30% stronger than every other melee spec in pvp..

    Kiting is supposed to be viable.. it reduces our healing by about 30% while reducing your dps similarly from disconnects. This makes TTK longer and means you get more out of other healers..

    Kiting is completely futile and unviable with the perma snare on top of all the other OP annoying mechanics of sin.

    As far as I'm concerned you rogues have the best sustained ST dps soul in the game with practically zero problems with target switching. Be happy with that.

    This entire thread has become rogues "don't nerf my OPness" against every other calling saying the new mechanics are stupid OP. Go ahead, when you post go ahead and say what your main calling is.

    Tadace - cleric, wholehearted advocate getting rid of perma snare and nerfing stealth in pvp.

  6. #141
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    I'm saying that just maybe it's okay if the healer has to take a second to ask a DPS on their own team to come get an enemy DPS off of them instead of the healer ignoring the only DPS on the other team that isn't attacking the 42K health tank for several minutes while said healer bunny hops their way to where ever they care to go.
    Lets have all our dps attack your dps that is attacking our healers. Sounds like a legit strategy.

  7. #142
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    Lets have all our dps attack your dps that is attacking our healers. Sounds like a legit strategy.
    like i already posted a single MM can make the sin useless in 2 GCDs and then kill him or force him off in 2 rotations.

  8. #143
    Ascendant Credo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    Lets have all our dps attack your dps that is attacking our healers. Sounds like a legit strategy.
    Yes, that's exactly what I meant because I only work and think in extremes
    Even free cost too much now

  9. #144
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprawlnBrawl View Post
    like i already posted a single MM can make the sin useless in 2 GCDs and then kill him or force him off in 2 rotations.
    Another skill that people generally considered OP used to counter what we are discussing it OP?

    Nobody else can purge that often and easily. Besides if the rogue stacks buffs properly and uses any indicator like nkrebuff it takes them 1 GCD to buff those two buffs back up the same as it took the MM to remove them so it doesn't actually accomplish anything.

  10. #145
    Plane Touched Skaleek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    Remove the permanent snare so that sins are now only 30% stronger than every other melee spec in pvp..

    Kiting is supposed to be viable.. it reduces our healing by about 30% while reducing your dps similarly from disconnects. This makes TTK longer and means you get more out of other healers..

    Kiting is completely futile and unviable with the perma snare on top of all the other OP annoying mechanics of sin.

    As far as I'm concerned you rogues have the best sustained ST dps soul in the game with practically zero problems with target switching. Be happy with that.

    This entire thread has become rogues "don't nerf my OPness" against every other calling saying the new mechanics are stupid OP. Go ahead, when you post go ahead and say what your main calling is.

    Tadace - cleric, wholehearted advocate getting rid of perma snare and nerfing stealth in pvp.
    Yup, you're right, Im a rogue. You're a cleric. Both of us are biased based on our classes and our perspectives regarding the interactions between the two, but please please dont act like rogues are some specific monster that comes to the forums and defends their class. Riftblade, Pyro, Inquis, MM, everyone defends the classes that can produce kills for their team.

    Im actually surprised you arent whining about marksmen, in all honesty they are much more of a threat to your heals than sins. Perhaps its because a sin is in your face that you notice them, rather than that gun toting MM, stripping your buffs and silencing you while doing intense burst.

    You feel that removing the snare from debil poison will balance sins? I can totally get on board with this, i dont actually care about a 30% snare in a game with an inordinate amount of speed buffs and blinks. Twilight force will still exist to perma snare you, i dont really see what will change other than your perception that sins have less tools at their disposal.

    I for one personally believe that lowering the mana drain on debil poison would be silly, i dont find it to be all that an effective tool unless its a greatly prolonged 1v1 fight against a mana dependant duelist.

  11. #146
    Champion TadaceAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skaleek View Post
    Im actually surprised you arent whining about marksmen, in all honesty they are much more of a threat to your heals than sins. Perhaps its because a sin is in your face that you notice them, rather than that gun toting MM, stripping your buffs and silencing you while doing intense burst.

    You feel that removing the snare from debil poison will balance sins? I can totally get on board with this, i dont actually care about a 30% snare in a game with an inordinate amount of speed buffs and blinks. Twilight force will still exist to perma snare you, i dont really see what will change other than your perception that sins have less tools at their disposal.

    I for one personally believe that lowering the mana drain on debil poison would be silly, i dont find it to be all that an effective tool unless its a greatly prolonged 1v1 fight against a mana dependant duelist.
    I think MM is nasty and probably the highest and easiest ST spec in the game but my problem is that sin is inarguably the best melee spec in pvp and introduces mechanics that no other callings have access to..

    Twilight force requires a GCD and is a huge dps loss.. and more easily cleansed since it isn't being applied over and over. Its still better than what any other class has but a long way behind deb.

    The mana drain is incredibly effective.. just having to stop and channel to regain mana for a few seconds is a huge hit on HPS.

    Lets do the math. From your estimates above, every 3 seconds you attack a cleric is 1 second they will have to channel to regain mana. That is a 33% reduction in sustained healing in a drawn out battle... because of a single sin attacking them.. that is about a loss of 600 HPS (based on 2k HPS) or inversely an increase in your DPS by 600... from just one effect of a buff...
    Last edited by TadaceAce; 09-23-2013 at 09:49 AM.

  12. #147
    Ascendant SprawlnBrawl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    Another skill that people generally considered OP used to counter what we are discussing it OP?

    Nobody else can purge that often and easily. Besides if the rogue stacks buffs properly and uses any indicator like nkrebuff it takes them 1 GCD to buff those two buffs back up the same as it took the MM to remove them so it doesn't actually accomplish anything.
    lol one example. a warrior or pyro mage can blow up a sin even faster or at worst force them to slip away, if a single sin is killing a back line cleric it's not because they are OP
    Last edited by SprawlnBrawl; 09-23-2013 at 09:54 AM.

  13. #148
    Ascendant WhozDat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    I think MM is nasty and probably the highest and easiest ST spec in the game but my problem is that sin is inarguably the best melee spec in pvp and introduces mechanics that no other callings have access to..

    Twilight force requires a GCD and is a huge dps loss.. and more easily cleansed since it isn't being applied over and over. Its still better than what any other class has but a long way behind deb.

    The mana drain is incredibly effective.. just having to stop and channel to regain mana for a few seconds is a huge hit on HPS. And as the math says above, every 3 seconds you attack a cleric is 1 second they will have to channel to regain mana. In a long drawn out battle this makes a huge difference.

    Are you SidVader's alt account?

    Guys, I can't literally heal myself once every 5 seconds while eating a sandwich, licking a window and afking in TB, when fighting one of the few viable melee builds in the game!?! It's OP!

    The only thing that's broken is their snare, and not because it's actually broken, but more because perma passive snares are a terrible idea and not one that should be proliferated into a build that actually needs them.
    The only rogue troll who does better with his warrior and plays his warrior more then his rogue.

    Kaesola@Deepwood (Formerly Kaesoia/Kaesola@Wolfsbane); Miafereen@Wolfsbane (Formerly Malesh@Laethys)

  14. #149
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    While i think sins are annoying while playing healer, i think they're hilarious to run into in 1 v 1 as DPS
    I dont think that ever happens without me having a good time.

    This just happened half an hour ago in a Codex, this sin was as sins usually do, stealth guarding vault, and i went there and killed him (ps, playing harb/chloro), he then pm'd me "noob" and he returned to get revenge after his trip to the graveyard, this is what happens during the other 3 trips to the graveyard.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img34/7894/4vy.png

    He didnt even get to scratch my rune shield before dying, it was all just kinda..sad...really...

    Anyway the point is that sins really are not overpowered, they just shouldnt have a passive snare. (nor should anyone)
    Last edited by Wetigos; 09-23-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by TadaceAce View Post
    Lets do the math. From your estimates above, every 3 seconds you attack a cleric is 1 second they will have to channel to regain mana. That is a 33% reduction in sustained healing in a drawn out battle... because of a single sin attacking them.. that is about a loss of 600 HPS (based on 2k HPS) or inversely an increase in your DPS by 600... from just one effect of a buff...
    Indirect math like that implies that silence is massive increase in DPS, and that eradicate is a massive decrease to your HPS, you have to factor all these things in. If a sin is purged (which happens all too often when youre pushed far ahead, trust me) you become an absolute nothing.

    Now Im someone who hates when people say: just purge your enemy, cause that it implies you can always purge despite whatever spec you choose to play. So instead ill say this: With the snare removed, would you still have a problem with Debil poison? Because its been around for a long time, and i havent heard of anyone complaining about it thus far, or really using it either.

    I would love to see the absolute uproar of the forums if someone jacked Daglars account and just posted a thread: Coming soon.... Eradicating poison.

    I actually think the next step is bringing other melee up to where sins are, so we can revive melee builds, rather then pushing down sins, but yeah thats for another thread.
    Last edited by Skaleek; 09-23-2013 at 09:58 AM.

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