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Thread: Paragon PvP video post 2.4

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    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    Default Paragon PvP video post 2.4

    Sorry I havent been around since the start of september. Trying to get stuff sorted out with back to school and beta testing 2 other games, but I got back on to try out the paragon changes.
    forgive the spotty gameplay as I havent been on in a bit and the controls felt a bit rusty. I dunno, I may be biased but it looks useable in pvp to me.

    enjoy

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    Dunno if you're doing it wrong, but that's pretty horrible damage. The hell happened to paragon? Reaping Harvest w/ Shifting used to be so scary...

    Edit: even the DT crystal effect seems to suck, adds the bonus damage on a separate proc. Does it even work with shifting?
    Last edited by Soboboo; 09-20-2013 at 02:54 AM.

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    Plane Walker dcndnts's Avatar
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    the best part is that shock pulse does more damage from range than all the paragon spam-able attacks
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcndnts View Post
    the best part is that shock pulse does more damage from range than all the paragon spam-able attacks
    not only does shock pulse do too much damage... just remember, this is all with reduced Global.

    so I do everything im supposed to do, I hit my follow up that makes next follups deal more damage, then hit my normal attack and my 54 point follow up.......... and it only tics for 500 damage every two seconds, OR I could just mashout shock pulse every global and deal 900-100 so the rank 0 skill thats ranged, deals more damage and more damage per sec and more damage over time, than my class mechanic rank 54 dot
    im 2nd guessing the heck out of myself after watching the video, we generate attack points so fast I should in theory have the AoE finisherbuff up alot more when in traffic and nothing says loving and makes people stop attacking you like reflecting their attacks back at them. I had a lot of fun this match. a warden and a chloro so I had just enough healing to keep me alive, but less healers than the other team so the video didnt turn into a route with me marauding through everyone.
    I like this patch so far


    Quote Originally Posted by Soboboo View Post
    Dunno if you're doing it wrong, but that's pretty horrible damage. The hell happened to paragon? Reaping Harvest w/ Shifting used to be so scary...

    Edit: even the DT crystal effect seems to suck, adds the bonus damage on a separate proc. Does it even work with shifting?
    majority of my kills came from that combo. Deathtouch shifting blades+ proc. People just fell over. its already been nerfed, it was 15k total damage pre nerf. Its powerful. Id almost say lets switch the weak dot we have with death touch and then buff the damage and debuff on it. I love the debuff but about the damage, remember, damage is lowered in pvp, and paragon damage is not the same as old riftblade. this damage all comes at reduced GCD. so your doing 3 hits for every 2 riftblade.
    Last edited by BishopX; 09-20-2013 at 07:39 AM.
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    Plane Walker dcndnts's Avatar
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    your rising waterfalls were critting for 1400.....
    shockpulse was critting for 1800 and you really think that is too much damage? really? id say that just about right and paragon abilities are severely under performing. seriously 90% of all your on gcd attacks were bellow 1500 with a 3k hit every 15 seconds from death touch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    majority of my kills came from that combo. Deathtouch shifting blades+ proc. People just fell over. its already been nerfed, it was 15k total damage pre nerf. Its powerful. Id almost say lets switch the weak dot we have with death touch and then buff the damage and debuff on it. I love the debuff but about the damage, remember, damage is lowered in pvp, and paragon damage is not the same as old riftblade. this damage all comes at reduced GCD. so your doing 3 hits for every 2 riftblade.
    Oh, I'm aware of all of that. I just remember you putting paragon on level with shaman, and my shaman most certainly does not hit like that with or without CDs. Even that wrist slash DoT is pathetic compared to frozen wrath, and is probably closer on par to lightning hammer (which ticks at 1 per sec). I dunno, I'm not seeing it... especially since shammy has 1s GCD too, as does NB, as does Sin, and even bladedancer puts out much better numbers than that WITHOUT cds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcndnts View Post
    your rising waterfalls were critting for 1400.....
    shockpulse was critting for 1800 and you really think that is too much damage? really? id say that just about right and paragon abilities are severely under performing. seriously 90% of all your on gcd attacks were bellow 1500 with a 3k hit every 15 seconds from death touch.
    are you going by damage per hit or total damage done? are you comparing it to prenerf riftblade marksman and sin?
    because I feel damn powerful compared to my druid but my druid can "hit" people for 18k. my druid will never go 27 kills in a match however.
    nothing will ever be pre nerf riftblade, nor should be.


    sorry to anyone trying to watch on a mobile device as I wanted to use Rakim "guess whose back" which is licensed music. I guess back to nintendo game music remixes I go
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    are you going by damage per hit or total damage done? are you comparing it to prenerf riftblade marksman and sin?
    because I feel damn powerful compared to my druid but my druid can "hit" people for 18k. my druid will never go 27 kills in a match however.
    nothing will ever be pre nerf riftblade, nor should be.


    sorry to anyone trying to watch on a mobile device as I wanted to use Rakim "guess whose back" which is licensed music. I guess back to nintendo game music remixes I go
    That's just not enough damage period. I remember you were on me once when I was defiler in 2.3 and I healed through almost all of it with just bond of torment + hideous. If you can't even threaten a defiler, I don't see the point. I'm not saying every build should be capable of killing a defiler, very few are, but you have to at least make them focus on keeping themselves alive... ESPECIALLY as melee.

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    Plane Walker dcndnts's Avatar
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    i want paragon to be good. it looks great for 1v1's against other melee's
    Im just not sold yet on it for wf play. i picked up the crystal this morning and made a build and will give it a go this weekend.
    hopefully im wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soboboo View Post
    Oh, I'm aware of all of that. I just remember you putting paragon on level with shaman, and my shaman most certainly does not hit like that with or without CDs. Even that wrist slash DoT is pathetic compared to frozen wrath, and is probably closer on par to lightning hammer (which ticks at 1 per sec). I dunno, I'm not seeing it... especially since shammy has 1s GCD too, as does NB, as does Sin, and even bladedancer puts out much better numbers than that WITHOUT cds.
    Well I am not a messiah, but I do have a cleric. and you may not know this but my cleric has not only been a shaman the 2 months but also the past 2 years.
    As someone who plays a paragon and a shaman I feel they are about equal. if you disagree thats your opinion.
    where paragon pulls ahead is that I can get 2 mix in warlord and get more HP, and also get a 2nd charge attack.
    where shaman pulls ahead is the great cooldown attack.

    your preaching to the choir about the paragon dot. I have been saying for the past 5 months the way to fix melee is by giving all melee classes heavy dots that are applied in melee strikes. it would help with disconnects a little while still providing the "I have to be in melee to deal the most damage" feel. I see no reason why open the stream isnt ticking on people for 1000-1200. a rank 54 dot that comes after as a follow up attack and is a melee attack, should hit harder than my clerics scourge, which is spamable and from range

    but ya, just my opinions.
    if you really want to compare paragon to shaman I posted a shaman match 3 days ago. same map, same person controlling it ,both matches were "draws" and even the same duration. the results are similar. you cant get more of a even comparison than this with random pug matches for comparing the 2 specs.
    Last edited by BishopX; 09-20-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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    Warriors remain neutered without a good healer, then they are pretty good, even in a bad for PvP paragon spec. I will shockingly agree with Bishop here and say DoTs may be a good way to break warriors from the Shock Pulse spam reliance, but only if done right.

    If it's as easy as pressing a cleanse button, dots won't do much to help disconnects.
    Last edited by Aeonblade; 09-20-2013 at 09:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcndnts View Post
    i want paragon to be good. it looks great for 1v1's against other melee's
    Im just not sold yet on it for wf play. i picked up the crystal this morning and made a build and will give it a go this weekend.
    hopefully im wrong
    actually IMHO its opposite. if you put me in small group fights and skirmishes and one on one I get slaughtered.
    in line fights, I get slaughtered
    when it turns into a mass sprawl with lots of people? yeah the class excels.
    im quite sure the rogue who walked past me at 2:30 wasnt expecting to die in 3 globals by someone running up behind him at 50% speed like a ninja.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soboboo View Post
    That's just not enough damage period. I remember you were on me once when I was defiler in 2.3 and I healed through almost all of it with just bond of torment + hideous. If you can't even threaten a defiler, I don't see the point. I'm not saying every build should be capable of killing a defiler, very few are, but you have to at least make them focus on keeping themselves alive... ESPECIALLY as melee.
    The other possibility being that healing is currently a little overtuned? Healfest matches becoming commonplace anyone?

    1.4k hits/crits are perfectly reasonable for a 1s gcd class, akin to a rogue.
    Last edited by Skaleek; 09-20-2013 at 09:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    Well I am not a messiah, but I do have a cleric. and you may not know this but my cleric has not only been a shaman the 2 months but also the past 2 years.
    As someone who plays a paragon and a shaman I feel they are about equal. if you disagree thats your opinion.
    where paragon pulls ahead is that I can get 2 mix in warlord and get more HP, and also get a 2nd charge attack.
    where shaman pulls ahead is the great cooldown attack.

    your preaching to the choir about the paragon dot. I have been saying for the past 5 months the way to fix melee is by giving all melee classes heavy dots that are applied in melee strikes. it would help with disconnects a little while still providing the "I have to be in melee to deal the most damage" feel. I see no reason why open the stream isnt ticking on people for 1000-1200. a rank 54 dot that comes after as a follow up attack and is a melee attack, should hit harder than my clerics scourge, which is spamable and from range
    The thing is, you don't run dark passage. Dark Passage/Flicker is a pipe dream for warriors/rogues, nothing comes close for disengage/cc breaks and its an excellent gap closer, better than charges when your target is root immune because you can land ahead of them. Frozen Wrath actually does hit harder than scourge(slightly, but it comes in 3s ticks instead of 1.5s, which actually works out better for the freeze combo), is spammable at range, is never reported to have less than 35% crit chance and is undispellable. I'm not even weighing the freeze combo against paragon when comparing these classes, which is sad.

    Shaman is still not a top tier build. I think people have a right to be harsh on paragon, which was pretty much supposed to be the savior build for 2.4 warriors. Looks to me like it's a squishy warlord, damage wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeonblade View Post
    Warriors remain neutered without a good healer, then they are pretty good, even in a bad for PvP paragon spec.
    I dont know about that, it depends on which game you played before this.

    if you played WoW where "warriors" were the guys with the most mitigation and most hp, that carried around 2handers and killed people by pushing forward forward FORWARD. then yeah the spec will seem to require pocket healing

    if you came from Warhammer, where a white lion/marauder could get knocked over by a slight breeze and have half your HP taken away by a random aoe you learn to run in and run out and wait your turn. If you notice this game I didnt have a pocket heal. count the heals on my team. 15 people and I have a warden a chloro and a warden/sent. no full sent or defielers or anything. if you look I drop out of combat to drink 4-5 times and used 2 potions.
    I think I did ok. people from other games may look at the "waiting to strike" as boring or bad mechanics, I kinda think thats how melee damage dealers shoulld work.. wait to strike get in and get out. kinda like Talon in league of legends, white lions in warhammer and Savages in DAoC.
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