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Thread: Important - Get Warriors Right, Trion

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mei View Post
    You're right. We should probably spend it on drugs instead.
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    New round up of some high rank matches
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  2. #482
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    Alright, so I've given this some thought.

    I play shaman any chance I get. I really only go heals these days if I'm the only cleric, or if I see someone worthy of healing. I'm pretty much completely over healing bads and hoping that by them annoying the other team by not dying we'll somehow win.

    So, as a melee class here is what I see, and why I don't think warrior melee can work without either having absolutely ridiculous spike damage, or by sustaining 2.5-3k PvP DPS while in melee range. Shaman falls into the ridiculous spike damage category, but sustains less ST DPS in PvP than MM, Inq, Pyro and RB. It does have the advantage of multi target damage through Frozen Wrath, which is a 3s DoT tick which does slightly more DPS than scourge, but ticks about half as often, but with a much higher crit rate, also undispellable.

    The burst combo if timed right, if you don't get peeled, your target has no outs, isn't a mage(eth shell), isn't linked, isn't a warlord(tanky spec, not rank), you can expect to deal at LEAST 20k damage in 3s followed by a glacial. It's very consistent burst, you always know what you'll get IF you get that combo off, but it's easy to get stopped, in which case you'll only get your massive off for about 8-11k total on valored targets, bleed included. This is a 1m CD, so between that you deal slightly more than a Warlord specced warrior, but deal much better disconnect/multi target damage.

    This is pretty much one of the burstiest classes in the game, but I still feel like MM hits nearly as hard without expending a REAL burst CD, has positional advantage, has a mobility advantage superior to any melee currently in the game, is not as vulnerable to purges(every single shaman buff including the one that gives 1.0s GCD can be purged), is practically immune to roots and snares, has the 2nd best purge in the game by a large margin, and has only 2 buffs that need to be maintained, only one of which doesn't persist for 8-10s when purged. I don't even count the baby buff from ranger as a crucial buff, just like I don't count any of my courage buffs as something required, just buffs to cover winter storm and furious assault.

    So, what warriors currently have is pretty absurd burst on nearly no CD with RB, AND the ability to sustain 2.5-3k+ DPS when connected to the target and at least 2k when disconnected from the target. What Shamans have is absurd burst for 3 seconds every minute which can be interrupted(and this is fine), fair disconnect damage using dark water instead of grasp(or with grasp after 3 stacks) + other DoTs and the ability to sustain maybe 1.8k-2.4k melee damage without CDs, depending on crits and how many times you get peeled.

    What warriors are going to have is decent burst with no meaningful CD, and MUCH lower sustained than they currently have. On the plus side Inq will be losing a lot of DPS as well, a TON in fact. They will pretty much do exactly how much damage a ranged class should, pyro is pretty close too but the burst they can do at range, without a tell or counterplay is a bit high. There is tons of room for counter play with a shaman, that's fair to me.

    So TL;DR

    Warrior (RB) damage is going from extremely high burst and extremely high DPS, to high burst, and okay DPS.

    MM damage is going to be at about the same level it is now

    Inq damage will fall off extremely hard next patch

    Pyro damage is fine except the lack of play when it comes to delivering their burst and the lack of methods to counter it other than to heal through it. Their charge doesn't even degenerate anymore, lol.

    Warriors are not going to do enough damage to warrant their use in WFs, and ranged dominance will be shifted almost entirely to marksmen next patch. Bring out your archon hybrids people, cause that will be the meta even in WFs.

    TL;DR of the TL;DR

    Lower ranged damage, and you won't have to overpower every underplayed build or archetype to keep up with the overpowered top tier. I guess maybe slap a passive drain on every ****ty melee build and we'll have melee filling the sin role of doing damage that can be easily healed through, but will eventually drain their target dry just by tunneling and never let them recover.

  3. #483
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    OH, almost completely forgot. The 61 point warlord, shaman, paragon, tempest ect buffs that grant 1s GCD all need to become unpurgable or these classes will always be subpar. It's too big a weakness to have as a frontliner when cleansing flames and eradicate exist.

  4. #484
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    Personally, I think crystal-less RB burst is not too bad if you do it right, it just has a bit of windup to it. The other warrior specs I definitely agree do need some more burst worked in, some less than others. Frenzied Strike was carrying that for them previously.

    The bigger problem is lack of a stun/root on riftwalk, and the absence of a functional snare. Warriors don't have unlimited gap closers that also break cc anymore, and haven't for a while. I really don't understand why we haven't been given a real snare back, or why it was ever taken away in the first place. It was never what was causing warriors to be unkiteable. I mean seriously, 51champ vs 38RB/28champ. Both had leg sweep. One was kiteable, the other was not. The culprit was glaringly obvious.
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  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soboboo View Post
    OH, almost completely forgot. The 61 point warlord, shaman, paragon, tempest ect buffs that grant 1s GCD all need to become unpurgable or these classes will always be subpar. It's too big a weakness to have as a frontliner when cleansing flames and eradicate exist.
    Warlord postures are not susceptible to purges, so the 61 there is already covered. I haven't played para or tempest enough yet since I've returned to notice if their 61s can be purged, but I would suspect so.
    No French kisses, and no hippopotamuses.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafa View Post
    Warlord postures are not susceptible to purges, so the 61 there is already covered. I haven't played para or tempest enough yet since I've returned to notice if their 61s can be purged, but I would suspect so.
    Yeah and as a funny joke, inq has the only other 1s GCD buff that can't be purged, at least that I know of. Harb has it baked in passively.

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