The Truth about PvP Armor Stats & Increases

[Landstalker]

Stats Nekkid or Baseline Stats (BS)
Int 262
Wis 120
End 257
SP 346
SC 191
Ven 180

Total Stats Merc
Int 334
Wis 225
End 493
SP 99
SC 174
Ven 259

Total Stats Merc + Baseline
Int 596
Wis 345
End 750
SP 445
SC 365
Ven 439

Total Stats Freelancer
Int 364 8.9% inc > merc 5.0% inc > Merc+BS
Wis 244 8.4% inc > merc 5.5% inc > Merc+BS
End 531 7.7% inc > merc 5.0% inc > Merc+BS
SP 107 8.0 % inc > merc 1.7% inc > Merc+BS
SC 192 10.3% inc > merc 4.9% inc > Merc+BS
Ven 286 10.4% inc > merc 6.1% inc > Merc+BS

Total Stats Warlord
Int 389 16.4% inc > merc 6.8% inc > Free 9.2% inc > Mrc+BS 4.1% >FreeBS
Wis 260 15.5% inc > merc 6.5% inc > Free 10.1% inc > Mrc+BS 4.6% >FreeBS
End 567 15.0% inc > merc 6.7% inc > Free 9.8% > Mrc+BS 4.8% >FreeBS
SP 115 16.1% inc > merc 7.4% inc > Free 3.5% > Mrc+BS 1.79%>FreeBS
SC 200 14.9% inc > merc 4.1% inc > Free 7.1% > Mrc+BS 2.19%>FreeBS
Ven 299 15.4% inc > merc 4.5% inc > Free 9.1% > Mrc+BS 2.9% >FreeBS

(inc > Mrc+BS) shows % increased from listed baseline stats + mercenary total stats added together.
(>FreeBS) shows % increase from total freelancer stats + baseline stats added together.
Both of these stats are important because they show the full value of the armor upgrades to your overall performance stats, as opposed to just showing the increased percentage of stats from one armor piece to the next. To truly see a piece of gears benefit you have to look at how it affects your baseline stats. For example, SP looks at first to be significant increases until you compare it to your baseline stats and it actually turns out to be a small increase.

See Warlord is less than roughly 10% ahead of mercenary, and barely even 5% over Free and thats being very generous with that statement. If your really asshurt and cant stand to be so far behind. Buy some credits and get all ur freelancer gear and the gap is so small at that point it isnt even really noticeable.

Landstalker,

Forumn PvP Jedi Master

[Raen Ryong]

Now add CQ Power, Synergy Crystal, PA (and are weapons included in that? Not seeing a weapon DPS increase which is valuable on half of the classes).

[Landstalker]

Now add CQ Power, Synergy Crystal, PA (and are weapons included in that? Not seeing a weapon DPS increase which is valuable on half of the classes).

No

CQ power is not gated in anyway it is simply time spent and maintained. PA is not gated it is time spent.

Synergy crystals clearly state their benefits. Why do i need to repost them? Get some freelacers and profit.

If you want to do weps your more than welcome to. I havent really thought much about how to figure wep dps added benefit tbh. Dont really want to do any more math for awhile.

[Raen Ryong]

Also runes (Empyrean is reasonable, Lustrous is not).

[Raen Ryong]

No

CQ power is not gated in anyway it is simply time spent and maintained. PA is not gated it is time spent.

Synergy crystals clearly state their benefits. Why do i need to repost them? Get some freelacers and profit.

If you want to do weps your more than welcome to. I havent really thought much about how to figure wep dps added benefit tbh. Dont really want to do any more math for awhile.

Benefits earned through time spent is exactly the problem. That is precisely the problem with gear gaps - advantages given to those who play most. Furthermore, not all players have capped CQ power nor capped PA and therefore it is a source of non-skill based difference.

[Eggs]

How to make yourself scratch your head in three easy steps:



1. Since PvP in Rift is rarely about 1 v 1s or even small groups,

2. multiply preceding gear gap by the number of people who outgear the other team in a particular engagement

3. Generate fun numbers which invalidate your argument.



Vertical progression is a terrible system for PvP; it sucks skilled play out of games. Conquest pre-mades (only one example) are the epitome of why.


~EgGs


Edit: This argument is so ridiculous, I wonder if he might not be advertising for the cash shop.

[Landstalker]

Also runes (Empyrean is reasonable, Lustrous is not).

Anyone can buy runes off the AH if they want too or with the millions of useless favor we get. Are you seriously gonna go on like this?

[Raen Ryong]

Anyone can buy runes off the AH if they want too or with the millions of useless favor we get. Are you seriously gonna go on like this?

A gear gap is an advantage that is not directly related to PvP skill. There are reasonable things to expect and unreasonable things. Not everyone has a full set of Lustrous runes, so it's a difference - I know you want to justify your high gear advantage as much as possible, but it's the truth.

[TedO]

As much as I love gw2 and 'normalized" gear.....thats the very point of a game of this template, there should be an advantage of some kind by virtue of time invested. ...If people decide its too much a of an issue.....no offense, but thats thier problem......too many options these days to dwell on gear gap in a Gear grind template based MMO, that is the very time sink to justify this very model.

And if they aren't willing to invest in accesories such as runes and upgrades...there again, thats thier problem. End game gear is the very carrot on the stick to reward oneself with time spent, if they made all this gear accessible by virtue of cash Shop, then you have just made a pay 2 win game.

[Landstalker]

A gear gap is an advantage that is not directly related to PvP skill. There are reasonable things to expect and unreasonable things. Not everyone has a full set of Lustrous runes, so it's a difference - I know you want to justify your high gear advantage as much as possible, but it's the truth.

To be honest, it looks much more like you trying to justify a lack of skill or to be kinder a lack of time spent and or plat. I addressed how the game limits you by progression in gear. Your merely unhappy with the results and desperately flaying out to poke any holes to widen the gap in your favor. I didnt even calculate a consideration for bolstered stats such as trinket, seal, or essences which to be fair if, if you are, would only serve to shorten the gear gap by increasing the variable for overall stats.

[Raen Ryong]

To be honest, it looks much more like you trying to justify a lack of skill or to be kinder a lack of time spent and or plat. I addressed how the game limits you by progression in gear. Your merely unhappy with the results and desperately flaying out to poke any holes to widen the gap in your favor. I didnt even calculate a consideration for bolstered stats such as trinket, seal, or essences which to be fair if, if you are, would only serve to shorten the gear gap by increasing the variable for overall stats.

I perform extremely well on all four of my characters and they're all semi low gear (Seraena is approaching low end of high). I've been PvPing since 2011 and never had any problems...

I just dislike bad players being carried by gear. Always have, always will. 0 gear gap does not scare me, for I have nothing to fear. The only thing I have to fear is people getting free wins due to inflated stats.

I also wish Conquest wasn't such a big Favor/Prestige gain and people actually had to learn to PvP and not just zergzergzerg.

[Eughe]

Runes can be bought by everyone. Thats not a gear gap when its easily accessible with no time investment.

CQ power is not staple. Hell, i dont have any CQ power, thus i must automagically be at a disadvantage (i'm not)

Very little difference between gear.

The only major difference between a new player and older player is PA and thats not even a pvp advantage. If you pve regularly, you, on average, would have more PA than that of a person who doesnt.


So, this is about gear. And that, according to the OP, is about a 10% difference.
If you want to add seals and trinkets and etc, its probably a bit more.

[Fia]

If you want to add seals and trinkets and etc, its probably a lot more.

Fixed it for you. :)

[Landstalker]

I perform extremely well on all four of my characters and they're all semi low gear (Seraena is approaching low end of high). I've been PvPing since 2011 and never had any problems...

I just dislike bad players being carried by gear. Always have, always will. 0 gear gap does not scare me, for I have nothing to fear. The only thing I have to fear is people getting free wins due to inflated stats.

I also wish Conquest wasn't such a big Favor/Prestige gain and people actually had to learn to PvP and not just zergzergzerg.

You are mistaken, Sir. I never questioned your level of skill, i only stated you seek to justify a lack of skill. Not your own, but the variable of lack of skill due to inexperience or ineffectivness of the player.

I dont fear the gear gap either. Clearly its nothing game breaking, it at best gives a 15% increase for "Time spent" in the extreme. The game bolsters you at 60 to mercenary gear level states. Im not sure about before level 60, but i dont think that adds or subtracts to this argument. So at first to be fair until you farm favor to get all your real merc items so you can rune them you would be at a slightly higher disadvantage. It is though very easy to get favor quickly, and to be fair they could have bought some if not all the peices before they hit 60. I certainly would if I was leveling up through the pvp system, which I might add is a huge selling point in Rifts favor! However, even if they dont, it surely wont take long but it is dependant on how much they play the game. It is in these moments that the player is forced to play and learn the game/class/spec. Wasn't that something you wanted them to do?

Also, its curious to me how you state you hate conquest. Did you bring it up simply bc you know its near and dear to me? I would have thought a person who is so against gear gaps would be for a pvp instance that allows for newer players to quickly rank up and close the very said gap your referring too. Simply put although you do not agree with the games structure, than surely you must have the viewpoint that this is clearly attractive to you. It allows for a quick way for people who are learning to play the game catch up to the higher teired players. I hope you see how that greatly confuses me.

Anyway this is the game, its ****ing bad *** if you ask me. Its really going to go viral once they implement dimension dueling. It will kill every game out there and be the new standard. If you dont like it, cant find a way to enjoy it, or you dont like where its going? Nobody cares. At least you dont have to pay for it anymore. Trion is brilliant, by going f2p they invalidated over half of all you cry hards on the forumns and your less than thoughtful arguments. The way some of you constantly post endless dredge and idioms in these forumns seriously make me wonder how many of you work for wow or make money from your wow exploited fame and are scared whats going to happen when Rift takesover.


Good night,

Forumn PvP Jedi

[Raen Ryong]

Runes can be bought by everyone. Thats not a gear gap when its easily accessible with no time investment.

Approximately 1.5k plat is not a time investment?

CQ power is not staple. Hell, i dont have any CQ power, thus i must automagically be at a disadvantage (i'm not)

Define "staple".

I really don't understand how this is difficult to logically understand ~_~

CQ power adds x advantage. You do not have CQ power. You are lacking x advantage. Anyone who has CQ power has x advantage over you. How is that hard to logically determine? You are at a relative disadvantage without conquest power.

The only major difference between a new player and older player is PA and thats not even a pvp advantage. If you pve regularly, you, on average, would have more PA than that of a person who doesnt.


So, this is about gear. And that, according to the OP, is about a 10% difference.
If you want to add seals and trinkets and etc, its probably a bit more.

... synergy crystal?? PA is not a PvP advantage? Do the stats not transfer over to PvP or something?

The gear is more than 10% - he is just not including things like CQ Power (which, by the way, is roughly a 10% increase to certain stats on its own as well as 6% movement speed).

It is in these moments that the player is forced to play and learn the game/class/spec. Wasn't that something you wanted them to do?

Yes, but inexperience/lack of skill should be the only things tying them down.

Also, its curious to me how you state you hate conquest. Did you bring it up simply bc you know its near and dear to me? I would have thought a person who is so against gear gaps would be for a pvp instance that allows for newer players to quickly rank up and close the very said gap your referring too. Simply put although you do not agree with the games structure, than surely you must have the viewpoint that this is clearly attractive to you. It allows for a quick way for people who are learning to play the game catch up to the higher teired players. I hope you see how that greatly confuses me.

If they're going to maintain their silly gear gap, they may as well make it earned through (relatively more) meaningful PvP which teaches you far more than zerging.

I really enjoy the PvP in the game, I just dislike gear gaps. If you conquer me through skill, then by all means enjoy your victory. But it's annoying when gear is a large contributor - and it's especially annoying when people get the false impression they're amazing because they steamroll people with gear.