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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: A note for the devs

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendy View Post
    I dunno why we expect new warfronts ...
    We don't. We expect new content, like group duells in Dimensions and stuff like that.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irona View Post
    Does Trion have in mind creating more warfronts? There are few at the moment. I find myself more often than not going to wow for PvP and using Rift for PvE (which I nevertheless do not enjoy as much as PvP). PvP in Rift feels like a grinding love-hate story. The number of warfronts are not enough to activate, psychologically, the extinction of the feeling you are grinding and grinding. The warfront rotation is too short to make that happens. Are there any plans for increasing, with a very significant amount, the numbers of warfronts? I would rather PvP in Rift than in Wow but at this moment it feels like I am grinding ad nauseam and the only way to cause extinction of this is wow PvP or taking long breaks from Rift PvP.
    More WF's is exactly what we do NOT need. PvP is PvP regardless of the setting. So unless you are some objective hero, then the setting shouldn't much matter. We have a pretty decent variation already. BG and lib for smaller battles with less room. WF, Lib, Karthan for medium battles with more room. Scion for zerg battles. Codex for medium, spread out battles.

    What we need is a true 5v5 WF with no objectives. That would then cover everything (since 10v10 is as small as you can technically get right now). Sure, new maps would be nice, but I do not want Trion to waste development time on something that serves little purpose when there are bigger fish to fry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toransparkwing View Post
    2.3 Introduces the Dendrome, which if you play on a PVP server is an entire new landscape of endless PVP ganking.

    Don't be a casual warfront scrub, move to a PVP shard.
    But then you get desolate zones because incentive to be in the world is rather minimal compared to what I've seen other games do. Also combined with the fact that PvP players here are quick to not want much to do with the world because it is written off as "PvE".

    One of the best open worlds I saw was really when the PvP player base enjoyed and engaged in the PvE with the desire to PvP whenever they could. Nobodies whole raid travels across a zone now, they just port. Quests are limited to dailies, important character progressions don't leave you in the world for long. You can tag an event and leave. Contested mobs with quality and *desired* loot don't exist. PvP fights over taking out PvE mobs with loot you HATED to see the enemy get their hands on is what created a really competitive world atmosphere. In Rift, if you lose, you just lose. Losing used to mean you lost out on the best loot or failed to further gate a guilds overall progression and power in the game.

    But look at what they have to work with, as I put in paragraph 1. Meh, I don't see world PvP in Rift ever being good. The devs nor the players involved in PvP really give a damn about the open world. I know they spend a lot of time on them...but...why should I go in them and stay in them? What is meaningful out there? I don't always feel like playing The Oregon Trail in Rift and running around hoping I find something to kill in the desolate fields.

    Quote Originally Posted by AceinHole View Post
    More WF's is exactly what we do NOT need. PvP is PvP regardless of the setting. So unless you are some objective hero, then the setting shouldn't much matter. We have a pretty decent variation already. BG and lib for smaller battles with less room. WF, Lib, Karthan for medium battles with more room. Scion for zerg battles. Codex for medium, spread out battles.

    What we need is a true 5v5 WF with no objectives. That would then cover everything (since 10v10 is as small as you can technically get right now). Sure, new maps would be nice, but I do not want Trion to waste development time on something that serves little purpose when there are bigger fish to fry.
    Map variety is king. There have been some very highly successful FPS games where the pinnacle included company sponsored tournaments with more than $25,000 of prizes handed out. Love then or hate them, the games knew competition and how to keep the scene fresh. Players were allowed to design maps and rule sets for maps. Those good FPS games would have died in the water if we were stuck to just the base set of maps the game provided and no expansion of rule set/mod style.

    My favorite FPS mod is pretty much MMO version of 5's. X v X last man standing style, winner is who takes most sets. Ie. once you die, you don't respawn until one whole time is wiped out. 1 wipe out = 1 set win. First to 5 set wins, or 11, etc is how it went. That is classic Rocket Arena rules. But if that game only supported Rocket Arena, it would have died. As I said, multi mods and maps is king for longevity in any "pvp" game.

    However, most the maps that were home run hits were made by players. A couple of the all-time classics were dev created. But some even tournament sponsored maps ended up being skilled player made maps. Something we will never get in MMOs...unless we can fight one day in dimensions with a scoreboard ;)
    Last edited by Violacea; 06-06-2013 at 12:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irona View Post
    I anticipated in my mind this type of cliché answering. Those that routinely use the same groove over and over again haven't yet grasped the differences between PvP as a "mini-game" with certain mechanics & goal and open PvP. Or they have but they don't know they do (the text in their posts uncover that they in some way know the differences but fail to see that because it is more important to complain, be negative and make oneself important and more savvy than others, instead of giving constructive feedback).
    It was constructive, albeit rude if you have no sense of humor or have thin skin. The solution is there, it wasn't a cliche.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    Map variety is king. There have been some very highly successful FPS games where the pinnacle included company sponsored tournaments with more than $25,000 of prizes handed out. Love then or hate them, the games knew competition and how to keep the scene fresh. Players were allowed to design maps and rule sets for maps. Those good FPS games would have died in the water if we were stuck to just the base set of maps the game provided and no expansion of rule set/mod style.
    Map variety might be king in a FPS where there is nothing but PvP to start with (not to mention a more hardcore PvP playerbase). The devs have nothing else to spend development time on in an FPS.

    However, in MMO's where we have to compete with the carebears for developer affection, we have to pick our battles. And since carebears are, by definition, better suck ups, that's a difficult proposition.

    However, most the maps that were home run hits were made by players. A couple of the all-time classics were dev created. But some even tournament sponsored maps ended up being skilled player made maps. Something we will never get in MMOs...unless we can fight one day in dimensions with a scoreboard ;)
    Yes, which is why we really need group duels in dimensions. That one feature would completely solve all of our small-scale PvP desires and add a lot of variety in maps that the devs wouldn't have to worry about since they would be player created. Of course, I would like it better if they gave us scoreboards (ladder, ratings, etc.) along with our group dueling, but at this point, I would take anything.
    Last edited by AceinHole; 06-06-2013 at 12:57 PM.

  6.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #21
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    Not sure where I ever said "no plans for PvP". As with everything, we generally have a lot of long term plans.

    I don't like to go around promising things we may not deliver on however. I like to announce things when they are real, can be touched, shown, or we are pretty damn sure are going to make it out the door.

    I refuse to start a hype train and disappoint folks if we have to push or cut a feature.

    ~Daglar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    Not sure where I ever said "no plans for PvP". As with everything, we generally have a lot of long term plans.

    I don't like to go around promising things we may not deliver on however. I like to announce things when they are real, can be touched, shown, or we are pretty damn sure are going to make it out the door.

    I refuse to start a hype train and disappoint folks if we have to push or cut a feature.

    ~Daglar
    im pretty sure you couldnt dissapoint the pvp community anymore my friend. we would much rather have something to look forward two even if it gets canned then nothing except the same repetitive content with little to no competition. Rift is such a great game with such potential for pvp, i think most of us see that and just want something out of trion after 2+ years of support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    im pretty sure you couldnt dissapoint the pvp community anymore my friend. we would much rather have something to look forward two even if it gets canned then nothing except the same repetitive content with little to no competition. Rift is such a great game with such potential for pvp, i think most of us see that and just want something out of trion after 2+ years of support.
    I agree with your sentiment, but I try not to be too hard on Daglar. He is just "following orders." A company is going to spend time on producing a product most people will use. In this case it is PvE, sadly. I guess I really should try to get into FPS games, but I just don't like them. So I hold out hope that a good PvP MMO will arrive one day. Maybe it will be Wildstar. We shall see.

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    i think there is just as many hardcore pvpers as there is pvers, maybe more. i dont understand why they dont add pvp content.... does anyone know? like whats their reasoning for not adding pvp content? is it more expensive to make? they are control freaks? i mean, we pay their salary, why dont they listen to us?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    But then you get desolate zones because incentive to be in the world is rather minimal compared to what I've seen other games do. Also combined with the fact that PvP players here are quick to not want much to do with the world because it is written off as "PvE".

    One of the best open worlds I saw was really when the PvP player base enjoyed and engaged in the PvE with the desire to PvP whenever they could. Nobodies whole raid travels across a zone now, they just port. Quests are limited to dailies, important character progressions don't leave you in the world for long. You can tag an event and leave. Contested mobs with quality and *desired* loot don't exist. PvP fights over taking out PvE mobs with loot you HATED to see the enemy get their hands on is what created a really competitive world atmosphere. In Rift, if you lose, you just lose. Losing used to mean you lost out on the best loot or failed to further gate a guilds overall progression and power in the game.

    But look at what they have to work with, as I put in paragraph 1. Meh, I don't see world PvP in Rift ever being good. The devs nor the players involved in PvP really give a damn about the open world. I know they spend a lot of time on them...but...why should I go in them and stay in them? What is meaningful out there? I don't always feel like playing The Oregon Trail in Rift and running around hoping I find something to kill in the desolate fields.



    Map variety is king. There have been some very highly successful FPS games where the pinnacle included company sponsored tournaments with more than $25,000 of prizes handed out. Love then or hate them, the games knew competition and how to keep the scene fresh. Players were allowed to design maps and rule sets for maps. Those good FPS games would have died in the water if we were stuck to just the base set of maps the game provided and no expansion of rule set/mod style.

    My favorite FPS mod is pretty much MMO version of 5's. X v X last man standing style, winner is who takes most sets. Ie. once you die, you don't respawn until one whole time is wiped out. 1 wipe out = 1 set win. First to 5 set wins, or 11, etc is how it went. That is classic Rocket Arena rules. But if that game only supported Rocket Arena, it would have died. As I said, multi mods and maps is king for longevity in any "pvp" game.

    However, most the maps that were home run hits were made by players. A couple of the all-time classics were dev created. But some even tournament sponsored maps ended up being skilled player made maps. Something we will never get in MMOs...unless we can fight one day in dimensions with a scoreboard ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceinHole View Post
    I agree with your sentiment, but I try not to be too hard on Daglar. He is just "following orders." A company is going to spend time on producing a product most people will use. In this case it is PvE, sadly. I guess I really should try to get into FPS games, but I just don't like them. So I hold out hope that a good PvP MMO will arrive one day. Maybe it will be Wildstar. We shall see.
    isnt he like their lead developer or something? im pretty sure if he pushed for something he would be "allowed" to develop it. personally thats why i get so frustrated, it has such potential to be an awesome pvp game! but so true, its a business, they develop what makes money for them i suppose. they got my money for the past couple years, i promise you they wont be getting any more of it though lol.

  12. #27
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    I refuse to start a hype train and disappoint folks if we have to push or cut a feature.

    ~Daglar


    i dont know about anybody else but at this point id be pretty damn happy to take a ride on the hype train. at least make me feel like you are going to add some pvp content, give me something to hang on to. show me that trion listens to us. i helped pay your salary for 2+ years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    im pretty sure you couldnt dissapoint the pvp community anymore my friend. we would much rather have something to look forward two even if it gets canned then nothing except the same repetitive content with little to no competition
    I've seen what happens when the devs talk about a thing they might not get to, and I've seen what happens when they say "we don't have anything we're ready to talk about". He could have an entire patch's worth of really interesting new PvP stuff that might make it in 2.4 and he'd still be making the right call.

    Thing is... Every patch, I see people saying this. PvPers, raiders, RPers, addon writers, everyone always seems to feel their favorite content isn't getting the attention it deserves.

    Pretty sure Trion has devs who care about PvP, and who are going to produce at least some stuff for PvPers within the next patch or so. Maybe some of that stuff won't appeal to you. Maybe some of it will.

    But 2.3 is, I would say, probably the biggest PvP patch ever in one core respect:

    The primary content of PvP is other players. 2.3 is probably going to deliver a lot of those. And even if you're used to the existing warfronts and such, they're not yet.

    Buy a character slot, roll an alt, and start doing PvP as early and often as you can, so you can teach the newcomers the mechanics, encourage them to be good sports, and otherwise build a PvP community that's larger and more active, and you'll probably find it rewarding.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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    Oh I dont care.

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    Last edited by spaceboots; 06-06-2013 at 01:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_real_seebs View Post
    I've seen what happens when the devs talk about a thing they might not get to, and I've seen what happens when they say "we don't have anything we're ready to talk about". He could have an entire patch's worth of really interesting new PvP stuff that might make it in 2.4 and he'd still be making the right call.

    Thing is... Every patch, I see people saying this. PvPers, raiders, RPers, addon writers, everyone always seems to feel their favorite content isn't getting the attention it deserves.

    Pretty sure Trion has devs who care about PvP, and who are going to produce at least some stuff for PvPers within the next patch or so. Maybe some of that stuff won't appeal to you. Maybe some of it will.

    But 2.3 is, I would say, probably the biggest PvP patch ever in one core respect:

    The primary content of PvP is other players. 2.3 is probably going to deliver a lot of those. And even if you're used to the existing warfronts and such, they're not yet.

    Buy a character slot, roll an alt, and start doing PvP as early and often as you can, so you can teach the newcomers the mechanics, encourage them to be good sports, and otherwise build a PvP community that's larger and more active, and you'll probably find it rewarding.
    pretty sure all us pvpers have already rolled numerous alts so we could pvp in lower brackets just for some false idea of something different. the only thing i see with the incoming flux of new players is just more people complaining about the same stuff we have been complaining about for some time. the new players will shortly become just as sick of it as we are.

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