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Thread: 5v5 Tips/Important Things

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    Ascendant mistacrowley420's Avatar
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    Default 5v5 Tips/Important Things

    I wanted to give some pointers to people new to the area in general, and especially those who need some assistance in the area of target calling. Even the strongest teams with the best healers in the game are at a disadvantage without somebody picking the right targets for their team to burst down.

    I also wanted to go over what in a general sense what each player should be trying to do in the hypothetical sense of both teams having the exact same comp(1 Riftblade, 1 Marksman, 1 Dom, 1 Sent, 1 Defiler).

    First off I always believe the warrior dps(Riftblade) should be the one leading the premade, rogues are able to this pretty well too; it's my preference though to let the rogue assist off your damage as a warrior and switch around to purge links/ opposing warriors damaging buffs as he sees fit while you pick the targets. Another thing is you have to know the cd's of the opposing side and what you have to look out for and be aware of when picking the right targets.

    Defensive Abilities


    Healer's Covenant- i.imgur.com/4tSDUKl.jpg
    When this is active on the target, you have probably pressured them very hard and the Sent was forced to blow this cd. It is very unlikely you will kill the target receiving this due to the amount of damage it reduces, I would recommend switching targets when you see this active on your target as it is a waste of your dps and time to attack them normally. Also make not of the person who was the target of cov will not be able to receive it again for a minute because they will also receive this.
    i.imgur.com/M9NVxIz.jpg

    Unstable Transformation-.imgur.com/uh4X0LD.jpg
    This is very noticeable and you don't need to really see the icon of the buff, you can tell Instantly when a target receives this. When they do, switch targets right away. I have never once seen a target die with unstable on them in a 5v5, it is hands down the best defensive cooldown in the game; any amount of time attacking this target is time better spent on another target.

    Guard- i.imgur.com/edUZwKA.jpg
    This on top of riftblades raw power is the other reason you want to have a warrior on your team. This is almost exactly like a Healer's Cov but it is 25% damage, not 30%. Things to note about it is that it applies no debuff, and is only affected by a 30 second cooldown. It does cost a lot of energy but it is well worth it to use your energy on it, also a cd you should pay attention to and consider switching targets when you do see it.

    Any of these with a defiler link= very low incoming damage on that target which does lead me to the next thing I wanted to talk about which is, links a defiler provides. I will only mention two because a lot of defilers only use two, and when the lower two are actually applied it has not been terribly problematic for me to kill players even with them.

    30% link(Link of Agony)- i.imgur.com/VSqenqz.jpg
    This is the strongest defiler link and dictates a lot of target calling, generally you don't want to call anybody with this link and if the link gets swapped to them you want to choose a different target with no link/weak link. The only time I have found it acceptable to kill a target with this link is when they are extremely low on health, or way overextended and not able to make it back to their team. When this happens though you generally still want to make an effort to purge it.

    20% link (Link of Suffering)- i.imgur.com/w1DziTl.jpg
    This is not as good as the 30% link obviously but is still an extremely powerful damage reduction. You generally don't want to attack somebody with this link either, especially when it's with another cd mentioned above. I sometimes attack the target of this link if it's a mage just because they can still be pressured with it on them as long as the target swap is well timed.

    Important Debuffs


    Transmogrify(Squirrel/Sheep)-i.imgur.com/iPdfKB9.jpg
    This may not seem very important or more like an annoyance in most warfronts, but well times squirrels in 5's can cost you the game. It is not the top of your priority list to get it off a dps if you're doing other things, but on your duo healer; it needs to be cleansed fast. If you get focused while your other healer is trapped in one and has no break frees, it can be tragic for any focus target. You should also wait for this to be cleansed if possible and save your break frees for a messy situation.

    Transference- i.imgur.com/BUfUaR7.jpg
    **** this ability. When used by a dom who knows what they're doing, it will most likely be casted on your dps every 30 seconds. From personal experience I know the warrior is usually the target of this debuff, and will not be able to effectively dps at all while it is on them. Sometimes they will call out for a cleanse or sometimes they will rage, either will notify you that it's on them along with the raid frames

    Traitorous Influence(TI)- i.imgur.com/zwvPfEl.jpg
    This ability has damaging, and energy/mana draining properties, and it is AoE affecting the players around you if you're not careful. You need to calm yourself when this comes on you and stop spamming your abilities and let your healers cleanse this. If you continue to spam not only is your dps drastically hurting but so would the other dps around you, and you are draining your healers. So dps keep an eye out for it so you don't hurt your team, and healers keep an eye out for it to cleanse it.

    Mass Betrayal(MB)-i.imgur.com/yCDyixG.jpg
    This ability is very similar to Traitorous, if it was on steroids. This ability can literally shut your whole team down if not taken care of, if you consider yourself a good healer or want to be one; learn to notice this ability and get rid of it immediately. It spreads as the person targeted with it casts, and does damage, drains mana, and completely destroys your energy as a dps. Any team with this debuff on them for a long time is going to be at a disadvantage.

    Haunting Pain-i.imgur.com/1uBoDbp.jpg
    This ability is a healers nightmare for 5's, not because of the actual damge it does, but because it's difficulty to cleanse. Haunting Pain applies 13 stacks of a debuff, and when you cleanse it only removes one stack at a time, this allows doms to cover things up that they don't want cleansed. I strongly suggest if you carry Panacea's to use them on this ability to remove it instantly.

    Roles and Duties


    Riftblade- I firmly believe the riftblade warrior should be the target caller, due to the ease of dpsing and being able to pay attention to surroundings without having to do much else. As a riftblade you should be picking the targets you find you will be the most successful attacking and using guard on the opposing teams dps focus. It is better for you to use guard than a healer to blow a big cd. You should also be peeling the dps off of your healer by using your two stuns, Wind spear, and Rift barrage.

    You will also find yourself being purged frequently if you're going against a team with any sense. Through all your buffs there is only two you will be rebuffing.

    Avatar of the Rift-i.imgur.com/cEQDL42.jpg
    Blade of the Ascended-i.imgur.com/Fa2NxTW.jpg

    If there is a dom on the other team you should also set that dom as your focus target and focus interrupt mana wrenches if you see them while you're dpsing, and haunting pain if it is possible. The more mana wrenches you interrupt the longer your healers have to keep your team going strong. This is the macro I use to interrupt the opposing doms mana wrench.

    #show stonespear
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast @focus stonespear

    Marksman- Most of the time the assisting dps, still providing heavy damage, if not heavier than the riftblades if the warrior is being purged. Your job is to assist your warrior and dps, and purge the focus target at the time. It is better for marksman to assist because they can do other things as needed, like purging the other teams riftblade to cripple his damage, or purging the links of an overextended dps; than notifying the warrior of the overextended dps's vulnerability.

    You should also set a focus target, yours should be the sentinel healer, so you can continue to dps while interrupting/silencing the sentinel because they rely on casts somewhat. Your macro should be very similar.

    #show deaden
    suppressmacrofailures
    cast @focus deaden

    Dom- This is one of the most important roles in a 5, the utility slot and obviously favored dom. The purpose of a dom is to make life easier on their team, and to make life unbearable for the other team. They are not supposed to be focused on dps, just shutting down healers, inconveniencing dps. You should be mana draining healers and casting other debuffs on the dps of the opposing team. Use transference on cd on the warrior.Make use of your squirrels, and rift tomb as it can be a deadly combo. Cover up things you don't want cleansed with other debuffs, specifically haunting pain. Healers will be your main priority as a dom.

    Also if you see someone in need of cleansing frequently in the match(most likely your sentinel healer) feel free to make a macro or just use deny on them on cd to make their life easier.

    Sentinel- You are the all around healer of the match bringing many things to the table, most notably your plethora of defensive cd's and your ability to cleanse affectively. Your job is to manage your cd's and keep your targets alive while trying to deal with the dom who will most likely be on you. Your team will also rely on you to cleanse quite often, you have an AoE cleanse and a single target cleanse with a one second global cooldown. Knowing when to use these things is going to make your team stronger, the ability to know when to heal someone who is dying and when to cleanse; also what to cleanse. Good sentinels make everybodies life easier in the premade.

    Defiler- Your job also entails healing and cleansing, but less cleansing than the sentinel. A defiler has to pay attention to their links, as they will be frequently purged. You have to manage your mana and when to heal with your Foul Growth. You are not free to not cleanse though, just because the sentinel is better at it. You must be aware of when you are needed to cleanse, most notably if your other healer is squirreled they can't exactly cleanse themselves. It would be a waste of a break free for them unless the situation was dire so you must cleanse them. Also help cleanse when pressure from the other team is moderate and not heavy. Your main priority is paying attention to your links though, swapping/reapplying them and using that unstable cd to save someone from the grave.

    I know this is a lot to read and nobody has to read it, I just saw a lot of teams last night who really want to participate in 5's. One thing I notice a lot of teams seem to need is a solid leader, there is a lot of potential great teams if someone could step up and lead them.

    Also feel free to give feedback and correct me on things, I am obviously not as knowledgeable on other classes as I am warrior; so if you see something that I didn't mention or something you think should be different let me and other people know.

    I love premade vs premade fights and for those others that do to I wanted to share my take on the things I see and the things I see other good players doing. At the very least I hope this helps a couple people.
    Last edited by mistacrowley420; 04-28-2013 at 08:35 PM.

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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    These are good tips/advice for pugs too. Thanks for posting.
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    Good stuff in the post as expected. I would like to make a minor nitpick in that Healer's Covenant is -40% damage and not -30% (in your Guard section). Doesn't change your point though.
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    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Role 19:

    Convince an old friend to come out of retirement.

    Also if anyone wants more detailed defiler help, gimme a bell or something.
    Last edited by Hikos; 04-28-2013 at 08:45 PM.

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    some other things to add onto the marksman tips, do not forget as a MM you are FULL of utility, you have the silence and purge was mentioned before but you also have knockbacks and roots, which if used properly can be more beneficial than dpsing.

    if you see a melee on healers, root them and knock them away, even if they use a gap closer and it get right back in, you still helped more than you probably think because if the healer has a way to escape on their own, now they won't have the gap closer up for when they do that. also repelling shot + static shot is an extremely powerful combo to either push a healer out of los of his team, or an over extended dps out of range of their healers, you may not look as good as you do currently on the scoreboard for damage, but the difference will be minimal and if you take full advantage of all the MM utility you will be surprised how much more often you win warfronts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikos View Post
    Role 19:

    Convince an old friend to come out of retirement.

    Also if anyone wants more detailed defiler help, gimme a bell or something.

    Hikos best link bot bork 2013

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    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slash_wrists View Post
    Hikos best link bot bork 2013
    Borking it up since 2011

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    Shield of Telara Strente's Avatar
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    my boy wreck turning over a new leaf. such a positive attitude unlike hikos. having a tea party later in your tree hut? tree hugging kent
    Last edited by Strente; 04-28-2013 at 09:33 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strente View Post
    my boy wreck turning over a new leaf. such a positive attitude unlike hikos. having a tea party later in your tree hut? tree hugging kent

    i've noticed wreck has a more positive attitude ever since Strente has came back to the game, i think you're beautiful face is a breath of fresh air to him

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    Most of the tips your giving is pretty common knowledge especially about HC and unstable being casted on targets no point in wasting gcds on those targets. But I've never done a 5 and I'm curious about your target selection as a rb. I noticed you made a @focus target macro for the dom so I can only assume your main focus is on the healer. So do you just want to save your stonespear for the dom only and not bother interrupting any casts from your main target or does the mm handle that?? Or do you also keep a non macroed stonespear for your main target along with the @focus macro and just try and interrupt both the healer and the dom?? Curious about which target in 5s takes priority
    Last edited by Kiika; 04-28-2013 at 09:59 PM.

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    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strente View Post
    my boy wreck turning over a new leaf. such a positive attitude unlike hikos. having a tea party later in your tree hut? tree hugging kent
    And everyones invited.



    So long as you're not a JAFA.

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    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Most of the tips your giving is pretty common knowledge especially about HC and unstable being casted on targets no point in wasting gcds on those targets. But I've never done a 5 and I'm curious about your target selection as a rb. I noticed you made a @focus target macro for the dom so I can only assume your main focus is on the healer. So do you just want to save your stonespear for the dom only and not bother interrupting any casts from your main target or does the mm handle that?? Or do you also keep a non macroed stonespear for your main target along with the @focus macro and just try and interrupt both the healer and the dom??
    MM has the sent focus'd because of the silence and using deaden on CD fits perfectly on the DR (i.e. silenced half the time), slash and I both had @focus antiquated tempest mirror macros for the dom too, to stun mana drains when wrecks was on CD. Also the sent is probably our least priority target (other than the MM) as dps and is the doms job to control with (with the MM) and would very rarely be wrecks target.

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    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistacrowley420 View Post
    5v5 Tips/Important Things
    Name of thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    But I've never done a 5
    You admitting you have never done 5s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Most of the tips your giving is pretty common knowledge .
    Despite never doing 5 mans, you are somehow qualified to say it is common knowledge.

    You are giving the average player too much credit if you assume most of these are common knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    Name of thread.



    You admitting you have never done 5s.



    Despite never doing 5 mans, you are somehow qualified to say it is common knowledge.

    You are giving the average player too much credit if you assume most of these are common knowledge.
    Well most of the tips you can apply to wfs. I said most of the tips were common knowledge not all. I plan on doing some of these 5s so there's some stuff here I could learn no doubt

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    Ascendant mistacrowley420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Most of the tips your giving is pretty common knowledge especially about HC and unstable being casted on targets no point in wasting gcds on those targets. But I've never done a 5 and I'm curious about your target selection as a rb. I noticed you made a @focus target macro for the dom so I can only assume your main focus is on the healer. So do you just want to save your stonespear for the dom only and not bother interrupting any casts from your main target or does the mm handle that?? Or do you also keep a non macroed stonespear for your main target along with the @focus macro and just try and interrupt both the healer and the dom?? Curious about which target in 5s takes priority
    The main focus changes from what links are on who, and yes I have the focus interrupt and a normal one to use on whatever, as should the rogue. Normally my interrupts are much better used on the dom, because the sentinel is not often the focus target as they are hard to kill in a 5v5. The dom can shut down the sent pretty hard too, along with the mm's @focus deaden to silence them, this lets you burn the defiler easier.

    The targets I tend to focus are the warrior, dom, and defiler; with the priority being a defiler. Reason for this is the riftblade is squishy as long as he has no heavy link, the dom has no real getaways, just cc. MM's can get away too easily and the sent has too much hp + the chance of a link from a defiler. Defilers are always my main focus because they cannot receive links, and cannot keep themselves alive with the sent cc'd. Once the defiler dies also the links are gone, leaving you free to pick and choose whichever target(I like to take the dps out first personally because the sent can just be cc'd) because they will have no links.
    Last edited by mistacrowley420; 04-28-2013 at 10:14 PM.

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