Subbed back up to pvp.

[Eughe]

melee viability does not revolve around damage, it revolves around survivability. so your "fair trade" is actualy a win for the harb.



warrior mitigation in rift has always been terrible.
sure, warriors have a nice high armor stat. but what good is that when everyone is hitting you with elemental damage?
the second reason warriors have such poor survivability is that we have three tank trees. all other classes have one or none. ALL our survivability skills are in those three trees. not in our dps souls. for the other classes, they might have less survivability skills, but they have them in the souls that are actualy usefull in pvp.
this is why harb beats rb on survivability. if a warrior wants his 61pt rb to have survivability equal to a harbs, he needs to drop down to 41pts in rb and put everything else into a tank soul. the loss in damage compared to the gain in survivability is totaly out of line in such a trade off.

P.S. hang on, isnt this thread about Fryday coming back?

I hate when people say "other classes" when they really mean "rogue"


Just say rogue.

[Wrastion]

your first sentance there denies the second.

everyone does elemental damage. elemental damage ignores armour.
warriors have higher armour, that mitigates physical attacks only.
but everyones doing elemental damage...

a warriors survivability does not come from their armour, as armour plays no role in mitigating 99% of attacks.
it comes from abilities picked up from the souls they choose, active or passive abilities.

all of the warriors defensive abilities, such as increased resistance, are in the tank souls. and rb/temp glass cannon uses no tank soul.

mages have no tank souls. but they still have defensive abilities (insult to injury, planar shield, essence of wind, leaf on the wind, planar retreat, storm shroud).

Since everyone does elemental damage yet some abilities do actually do physical from the start the warriors natural mitigation is better. I never contradicted anything i didnt think this needed said for the complete picture to make sense. I also never said it was that much of a difference but you were the one implying temps are weaker then mages dps specs which isnt true. Pure mage pyro might have a shield or two but rb has an inherent heal proc and temp has a small but quick heal. tit for tat neither are amazing. We are talking pure dps glass cannon specs. I already stated harb does not hit as well or do as much damage as pure warrior dps but gets more survivability. True to how trion made mages the harb is a mix of damage and mitigation. Halfway there on both. No harb threads for pvp that im seeing. Got a couple on rb temp and lt from temp in particular. Lets get real here.

[Rhetoric]

Hey Fryday, join us in <Unreal> on Seastone. We have a couple old TFS pvpers, plus a bunch of other good ones. As far as mage specs, I'm still trying to find a good one also... Ive been messing around with Harb specs lately. Pyrodom does still work, but not as well as it did in vanilla. Full Dom and full chloro are doing decent as well I guess. My chlorolock is dead though.

Oh and I may not be the best with Harb yet, nor fully geared (only P63) but 61RB/xTemp warriors are eating me up in duels. So are 61 Inquis.

It pretty much comes down to understanding that mages are pretty close to being the weakest ranged class currently, with warriors and clerics on top, and of course rogues.

Of course, Ive been dueling people with ranks in the 70's or 80, with Warlord gear, and I have yet to fully adapt to SL changes since my precious Chlorolock is gone.

[Fryday]

Hey Fryday, join us in <Unreal> on Seastone. We have a couple old TFS pvpers, plus a bunch of other good ones. As far as mage specs, I'm still trying to find a good one also... Ive been messing around with Harb specs lately. Pyrodom does still work, but not as well as it did in vanilla. Full Dom and full chloro are doing decent as well I guess. My chlorolock is dead though.

Oh and I may not be the best with Harb yet, nor fully geared (only P63) but 61RB/xTemp warriors are eating me up in duels. So are 61 Inquis.

It pretty much comes down to understanding that mages are pretty close to being the weakest ranged class currently, with warriors and clerics on top, and of course rogues.

Of course, Ive been dueling people with ranks in the 70's or 80, with Warlord gear, and I have yet to fully adapt to SL changes since my precious Chlorolock is gone.

I already joined! There's a big differance dueling someone with 25% more damage mitigation than you.

[spaceboots]

Since everyone does elemental damage yet some abilities do actually do physical from the start the warriors natural mitigation is better.

Have you compared the differences in pvp armor sets? It's not as spetecular as you think, and certainly not as good as it was pre-SL.

[Fujitasix]

Have you compared the differences in pvp armor sets? It's not as spetecular as you think, and certainly not as good as it was pre-SL.

+1

I frontline CQ tank while dual wielding if that gives you any idea of the value of armor.

[spaceboots]

+1

I frontline CQ tank while dual wielding if that gives you any idea of the value of armor.

No use a shield to block more. I mean it's a shield, surely it will have +block on it.

[Fujitasix]

No use a shield to block more. I mean it's a shield, surely it will have +block on it.

Yeah it's semi-humorous there's no block on the PvP shield, but even it there were it would be worth... 1% more?

My armor value without a shield 35k, with a shield 51k... a difference of 7%, further nerfed for PvP, where ~85% of the incoming damage is elemental anyway. I'll keep the extra whetstone slot, thanks.

Block chance with 11 Warlord - 17.5% Block chance with a pvp shield - 17.7%.

But hey, you get to slap on that cool new 4 hour spike for a massive 100 damage reflect!

[spaceboots]

Yeah it's semi-humorous there's no block on the PvP shield, but even it there were it would be worth... 1% more?

My armor value without a shield 35k, with a shield 51k... a difference of 7%, further nerfed for PvP, where ~85% of the incoming damage is elemental anyway. I'll keep the extra whetstone slot, thanks.

Block chance with 11 Warlord - 17.5% Block chance with a pvp shield - 17.7%.

But hey, you get to slap on that cool new 4 hour spike for a massive 100 damage reflect!

haha that's a good point.

Well if you don't want to use a shield use a 2h for more damage, it's a giant axe and stuff.

Oh no... it does the same as 1h. That's pointless too. At least we have an entire tree that requires a shield. That sometimes makes me open my bags.


Man for a rpg there sure are very little options to meaningfully equip your character.

[Scaramuccia]

But hey, you get to slap on that cool new 4 hour spike for a massive 100 damage reflect!

I remember getting killed by suicide bombing into raids in CQ with Mass Betrayal, only to die to Mass Charged Shield. Reactive damage too stronk.