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Thread: New Rift Player in the CQ's

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default New Rift Player in the CQ's

    As a newer Rift player but avid pvper from many different games, I have to say that I can't stand CQ's. Something that could be fun is pretty much just a zerg fest. People with most numbers that can run through people pretty much will win maybe 95% of the time. Yes I do understand the basis of strategy on taking over the extractors etc etc.... as I also played Planetside with much larger scale fighting that was more involved.

    To me Zerging is not really Pvp but the way the current system is set up it's not much fun and directly shows little to no skill. Also to level up to the pvp ladder, it is a necessary evil. I could be wrong on some of this but as I stated, I am new here but I am thinking that I am correct.

    Something else I don't understand. Why are you able to join 1 faction and fill it up. Doesn't this leave the other factions high and dry to be ran over? There needs to be a mechanic in place to prevent preloading a win team as it will be the faction of choice. This is a fail system and should be looked at with more scrutiny.

    Lastly I keep hearing in channels about people spamming to make premades.....

    I don't think most of the people understand what a true premade is. If you are spamming channels to make a "Premade", then it is not a premade. You have a PuG force. If you can get a raid force in Vent/TS/Mumble etc and you have 1-3 leaders calling the shots, that is a True "Premade". I am guessing this is probably some peoples first PvP MMO.

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    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaiTh View Post

    I don't think most of the people understand what a true premade is. If you can get a raid force in Vent/TS/Mumble etc and you have 1-3 leaders calling the shots, that is a True "Premade". I am guessing this is probably some peoples first PvP MMO.
    Who says that isn't what is happening? I know you are new, but making assumptions as a new

    player isn't generally the best idea. But you are right, cq has some issues. Trion has been working

    since cq release tweaking it here and there to try to make it a better experience.
    Last edited by Baramos; 02-24-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    @ the OP.

    you are mostly correct with your complaints, with a few minor exceptions.

    there is a mechanic in place to balance out the teams. however, one team has the "history" of being the continueing victorious side. players on that faction expect to win and act accordingly. players on the other factions expect to lose and act accordingly.

    if you are on a losing faction and think your zerg is not as big as the winning factions, you will be correct. but both teams will have close to the same number of players in the game. the players on the losing faction wont all be in the zerg though. they'll afk. they'll run around solo/small group, ect.

    also, there are premades utilising vent in CQ. these premades have regular leaders and regular players. they also want more people to join in and benefit from their leadership/superior coordination. they are doing a great service to the community and making the best of a messy situation. you should consider giving them the benefit of the doubt and join their groups. they often run more than just one raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    Belisama has generously paid for a 60 person Ventrilo server and it's often near capacity for prime time CQ.

    I'll also counter your argument that it's simply zerg v zerg and the larger team wins. We'll take two "premade" raids to choke a team into their base during the timer, making it easier for the remainder of our team to control the caps. A group with proper PvP specs and voice comms can kill 3x its number with good use of choke points.

    /Join AquaBeerLand@Greybriar chat channel if you want to know when we're forming up. We're always looking for new people to bring along - and hearing "holy **** that was the most fun I've ever had in CQ!" is pretty rewarding for us.
    Currently playing Beermaid lvl 65 War

  5. #5
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    i think trion should really put in a counter in cq SHOWING the people they are NOT outnumbered greatly, this is the most common excuse i hear in cq when losing "they are 100 more then us we have no chance, hence stop playing accordingly"...

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antigonos View Post
    i think trion should really put in a counter in cq SHOWING the people they are NOT outnumbered greatly, this is the most common excuse i hear in cq when losing "they are 100 more then us we have no chance, hence stop playing accordingly"...
    You are somewhat correct. As is the OP in his assumption "the side with the greater number will walk thru the lesser 95% of the time" ( i paraphrase). The truth is, many times the smaller group will destroy larger. How and why is this possible? Simple, the smaller group is willing and able to fight and kill. We have all seen it again and again, several players in a group playing bard, or clerics and warriors with so many points in tanking souls they show up as tanks. Others playing with defensive buffs up.

    Have your dps meters running the next time you are bringing down an extractor. Notice the number of players unable to break 3k dps when it is single target. These are the people who despite their numbers cannot win battles. The first time their hit points drop they begin backing up and expose the healers. This causes the chain reaction of a retreat.

    Before I ignore an entire aspect of pvp, that being healers, let me say this. Spamming group heals, the equivalent of throwing poop against the wall to see what sticks. Look at your dps meters. See the people on top? See the people first to ride into battle? Those are the people single target healing will better benefit you and your team. Because when they die, you will follow shortly. The knucklehead backing up spamming aoe's, when he dies it will leave the same hole pulling your hand out of a bucket water leaves.

    Why? What's the problem? How does the continue endlessly? Once again, these answers are simple. These people don't want to pvp. They are only in CQ/WF because they want something to help them in pve. ie; The trinket, CQ power buff, PA. they have little or no desire to pvp or to learn how to pvp.

    So over and over again they convince themselves, thru themselves, that "strategy" and not "killing" are the main ingredient in victory. "We'd have won if we didn't take CM. That;s a stupid move" Less killing capable teams can win, but it is not thru strategy. They win by being lucky enough that the other 2 teams go head to head killing one another for a vast portion of the 5 minute timer. Not so much "strategy" as dumb luck. So since it all comes down to "strategy" (in their minds) needing a pvp build, skill and ability, are all academic. They convinced themselves, that all they need to do is survive to carry out their "strategy"

    But despite being true, "killing wins CQ/WF" and it being proved 95%+ of the time they will cling to the exception. Believing whole heartedly, that this is the true result.

    So what is a fan of pvp to do? Shut off CQ and WF chat. Do what you know, needs to be done. And suffer through the times you are forced to play with people, who frankly would rather not be there. And when you are amongst the worst via the "I joined Dom, when it said join, but I am on NF" get your daily done and leave. Or leave and try joining with an alt. Or just leave.

    Trion has succeed in getting greater numbers into pvp, but at the cost of those who actually want to pvp. Thank you, but no thank you.

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    Who says that isn't what is happening? I know you are new, but making assumptions as a new player isn't generally the best idea. But you are right, cq has some issues. Trion has been working since cq release tweaking it here and there to try to make it a better experience.
    Actually all you have is assumptions when you are new. The best thing to counter that is to ask and clarify. That is what I am doing here . And yes, I also agree that people will play the part of the sheep when they feel doom is what stands in front of them. Thanks for clarifying. Have a good one.

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    Ascendant Gunzip's Avatar
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    @OP, CQ is fine, learntopremadequeue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    I believe Assassin DoTs are uncleansable.

    It's still a terrible PvP spec compared to Marksman, though.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Baramos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaiTh View Post
    Actually all you have is assumptions when you are new.
    Questions are obviously fine, assuming that we are new to mmos and don't know what a

    premade is another story. Either way, welcome to rift and cya around.
    Last edited by Baramos; 02-25-2013 at 10:12 AM.
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    Shield of Telara Strente's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baramos View Post
    Either way, welcome to rift and cya around.
    He is going to 2 shot you when he sees you in a warfront. is what he means.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Tagliavini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    also, there are premades utilising vent in CQ. these premades have regular leaders and regular players. they also want more people to join in and benefit from their leadership/superior coordination. they are doing a great service to the community and making the best of a messy situation. you should consider giving them the benefit of the doubt and join their groups. they often run more than just one raid.
    I highlighted the part of your post that I'm calling into question. I'm not against the premades at all; I've benefited from them myself, but I don't believe they are doing a service to the community at all. No premade ever does. It is by rule meant to dominate the other team(s) with superior communication, response, and brute force all coordinated through vent. Breaking everyone in it's path. The only thing that will save the premades from being *****ed about here is the ridiculous way CQ is set up where you can lose at the end even though you controlled more extractors and were the dominant team. I am actually hoping that they go harder and not allow every random (like me) to join them, and that this in turn ends the games quicker. Slit throat and leave. At least until there are 3 different team premades all at once!

    But, I'm also a fan of there only being one button to join CQ and your assignment is random. YMMV.
    There is only Strength.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strente View Post
    He is going to 2 shot you when he sees you in a warfront. is what he means.
    lol perhaps. I will be 60 by today or tomorrow so I will be able to upgrade past mercenary. Not bad for not hitting 3 months yet.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Fujitasix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagliavini View Post
    I highlighted the part of your post that I'm calling into question. I'm not against the premades at all; I've benefited from them myself, but I don't believe they are doing a service to the community at all. No premade ever does. It is by rule meant to dominate the other team(s) with superior communication, response, and brute force all coordinated through vent. Breaking everyone in it's path. The only thing that will save the premades from being *****ed about here is the ridiculous way CQ is set up where you can lose at the end even though you controlled more extractors and were the dominant team.
    I've called that into question myself when we're absolutely steamrolling other teams - but the reality was that one team typically steamrolled ALL THE TIME and it impacted the psyche of people not on the current dominant team, relegating those other two teams to dejected individuals anticipating a loss and protracted PvE extractor session running from the predatory zerg.

    Is it helpful? Yes, in that we don't always queue for the same faction. We're doing our best to make it a random environment, but to do so we must have *some* leverage. It started with a handful, it grew to a consistent raid, expanded to telling people which team we were going to attempt to join, and now it's ballooned to 2 full raids + and formed up 20 minutes prior to CQ start.

    So now we're approaching (or at) the harmful stage we were attempting to discourage, and looking for other players to step up and lead, use voice comms, and may the best team win. We've raised interest in CQ, anecdotal evidence suggests players are actively running and playing with their zergs instead of botting around the map, and overall participation and fun factors are up. (I random pug during the day, the chat isn't nearly as useless as it used to be regardless of the team you're on).

    We put a good bit of effort into building a fun environment people will enjoy playing, so I don't think it's on us to tear it down. AquaBeerLand isn't some magical 4th faction, and anyone can replicate what we're doing. Please do so.
    Currently playing Beermaid lvl 65 War

  14. #14
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagliavini View Post
    I highlighted the part of your post that I'm calling into question. I'm not against the premades at all; I've benefited from them myself, but I don't believe they are doing a service to the community at all. No premade ever does. It is by rule meant to dominate the other team(s) with superior communication, response, and brute force all coordinated through vent. Breaking everyone in it's path. The only thing that will save the premades from being *****ed about here is the ridiculous way CQ is set up where you can lose at the end even though you controlled more extractors and were the dominant team. I am actually hoping that they go harder and not allow every random (like me) to join them, and that this in turn ends the games quicker. Slit throat and leave. At least until there are 3 different team premades all at once!

    But, I'm also a fan of there only being one button to join CQ and your assignment is random. YMMV.
    they are doing a community service, in my view, because they are not limiting their premade to their guild/faction/server but are in fact open to everyone.

    you'll note in this very thread a member of that premade gives you the ingame chat channel you can join to jump on the bandwagon.

    also, consider the state of cq without the premade. dom dominating every game, every tome. players unlucky enough to to get dom give up as soon as they see they are on another faction.

    the premade has mostly been queueing NF, that i have seen. and they are breaking the dom stranglehold on CQ.
    this is also to the benefit of everyone, not just the premade.

    lastly, the aquabeerland premade is essentialy a call to arms for pvpers. if they become the dominating factor, as you fear, the very thing that created it in the first place will cause one or more counter premades to coalesce, party from its own zerg, to defeat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    also, consider the state of cq without the premade. dom dominating every game, every time. players unlucky enough not to get dom give up as soon as they see they are on another faction.
    fixed a couple of typoes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

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